Minimum Wage hike, you for it?

Flyin Mikey J wrote:

Lesley wrote: It won't work as long as we continue to buy goods made in foreign sweat shops. If you want a standard of living, you have to be willing to pay for it.

What about domestic sweat shops staffed by undocumented workers that are exempt from a minimum wage standard? What about most of what you eat being harvested by undocumented workers earning lass than minimum wage? Remember, the higher the minimum wage goes, the greater the incentive to hire foreign workers to circumvent that wage increase mandate.

Hang on....

Neither of those examples are legal.

We will never be able to pass a law that stops people from doing illegal stuff, if they are willing to do illegal stuff. Another law (on top of the one they are already breaking) won't stop them.

Flyin Mikey J wrote: IMO, there needs to be some sort of laws stating "if you fail to pay your workers living wage, your products are unwelcome in our country".

Again, as I have previously noted, you can NOT define a "living wage".

If you lived in a place where $.30 per hour was normal, then $.30 per hour would be a "living wage", and $1 per hour would be astronomical.

Many of these international workers ARE being paid "living wages", in fact, quite generous for their local economies.

Or were you suggesting they pay U.S. minimum wage??

SVreX wrote:

Flyin Mikey J wrote:

Lesley wrote: It won't work as long as we continue to buy goods made in foreign sweat shops. If you want a standard of living, you have to be willing to pay for it.

What about domestic sweat shops staffed by undocumented workers that are exempt from a minimum wage standard? What about most of what you eat being harvested by undocumented workers earning lass than minimum wage? Remember, the higher the minimum wage goes, the greater the incentive to hire foreign workers to circumvent that wage increase mandate.

Hang on.... Neither of those examples are legal. We will never be able to pass a law that stops people from doing illegal stuff, if they are willing to do illegal stuff. Another law (on top of the one they are already breaking) won't stop them.

I was pointing out that minimum wage hikes just spreads the illegal practice. If you want to curb the use of illegal workers, you need to lower minimum wage, not raise it.

My solution is rather than have a minimum wage at all, make each job open for bidding. "I will do the job for $6/h" "Our best offer is $5.50, can you beat that?" It would be up to each individual worker how low he is willing to go to find employment.

SVreX wrote: Or were you suggesting they pay U.S. minimum wage??

If that what it takes to level the playing field or tip it in favor of US workers, then yeah. I take no pity on the poor of other nations when anything done to help them is at the cost of our own work force. You can call it heartless and shallow, but I care more about Americans living in tents and under bridges that I see every day than I do those living in those same conditions overseas out of my sight.

Javelin wrote: I propose a MAXIMUM wage.

Oh hell to the yeah!

Too bad it would take a bloody coup for that to happen in our lifetime.

The Swiss just voted against capping the max executive pay at 12x the lowest wage earners pay. I'm not sure it would fly here either.

Just a random factoid to show its not just the US having this debate.

DrBoost wrote: I guess i just dont get it. I wet to a pretty crappy school. Crappy enough that they actuallu discouraged us from "higher education". Durig high school i was working minimum wage. Didnt like it. Went to voc-tech and learned a trade. Got a job in that trade making not much more than minimum wage. Wasnt terribly happy witht that. Learned all i could from the older guys around me, took on more challenging jobs. Boss saw a good worker, sent me for more training. Learned all i could and kept working hard. I was a mechanic but kept looking for more challenges, always saw rewards. Now i can support a wife, 3 kids, and a small car habit. Sorry, but if I can do it, so can anyone.

Thank You, I moved to the US with a couple of hundred dollars in my pocket, had no help, no green card and no prospects, but I knew I could work.

Did some cash jobs until I got my green card, worked hard, became a local reporter and worked hard, saw an opportunity and worked hard.

10 years of hard work making way under minimum wage and I broke through.

Now I make a good income and be damned if I still work hard.

I have no training, little education but plenty of drive to do what it takes.

If you make an income that is less that you wish you did, get off your duff and go work harder at something that will give you more income.

I'm not smarter, just took a few chances and, oh yeah 40 hour weeks are for Bob Costas. I usually do 90 hours a week on the road or behind my desk.

Nothing personal, but I had nothing to my name in 1999.

I'm a liberal. Can I have one of these handouts you all are talking about?

Aussiesmg and DrBoost, It is still awe inspiring to me to hear boot strap stories like yours. I'm hoping I keep it up and some day have a story like you guys. Just nice to know that America is still the land of opportunity if you work for it.

Flyin Mikey J wrote:

SVreX wrote: Or were you suggesting they pay U.S. minimum wage??

If that what it takes to level the playing field or tip it in favor of US workers, then yeah. I take no pity on the poor of other nations when anything done to help them is at the cost of our own work force. You can call it heartless and shallow, but I care more about Americans living in tents and under bridges that I see every day than I do those living in those same conditions overseas out of my sight.

Wow. This is one of the most impractical perspectives I've ever heard.

How would you propose we force other sovereign nations to make companies pay their employees 10X or more what they are worth?

That is completely ridiculous.

What US company would allow a foreign nation to dictate wages they pay to their own employees by whining, "That's not fair"??

Yeah, well they won't do it either.

We can't even agree on policies for our own workers, now we are going to try to be the underemployment police for the rest of the world??

I am not shy what I make an hour... it varies by casino. At the Borgata, I make 38/hr. at Harrah's, I make 34/hr, at the rest, I make about 26/hr. If I could work 40+ hours a week I would be set, but I usually work about 24ish with some weeks less and a few more. Most of work comes in a huge amount of hours on Friday and Saturday.

However, you would think that for that amount of hourly wage, people would work their behinds off? Not a chance. I pride myself on being a mover and it shows as I am number 3 on the call list at the Borgata (3rd person they call when hours are offered) but many many many stage hands are just glorified box pushers and mediocre ones at that.

I don't think there should be a minimum wage at all, at least not one established by the federal government. Don't think it is something that concerns them and that it is only constitutional based on a bad decision from the supreme court.

For all those in favor of raising the minimum wage to $15/hr (or other increase greater that exceeds inflation). If the MW gets raised significantly:

What about the guy that worked hard to standout from his peers, showed personal initiative and have busted his ass to get to $15 (or $10 or $12 or whatever amount you think it needs to be)?

Does he get a raise? Or has he just watched years of hard work to move up disappear with a wave of the pen?

What is the motivation for those people ( or anyone in a low paying job) to work hard if there hard work and gains are just going to be wiped out and their peers who did the minimum are suddenly earning as much as they earn?

jstand wrote: For all those in favor of raising the minimum wage to $15/hr (or other increase greater that exceeds inflation)...

And who would that be? Pretty sure it isn't anyone on this board.

Highest number I think anyone here has suggested as a real possibility is $9. Which is faster than inflation since the last MW increase, but not insanely so. I would say that is a reasonable number because instead of waiting for MW to fall below the poverty line, it would keep ahead until the next cycle of increases.

As for people who are currently earning $1.50 above MW... Dunno. Can't please all the people all the time. Probably what happens is that they are working hard enough to get a raise the next year and the people who aren't working hard enough don't.

Maybe I misread, I've been reading this a few pages at at time, but I thought there were people early on (first 5 or 6 pages) that the number needs to be significantly higher than it is now (30% or more), and a lot of debate about inflation, "living wage", and whether or not there should be safety nets.

I am not against trying to make sure people are not taken advantage of, and agree that there should be safety nets, they serve a purpose. But regardless of how similar they look, people should not confuse a safety net with a hammock.

The problem I have with any significant increase is that it eliminates any gains made by the people who made an effort to improve their lot in life in order to improve the lives of those that didn't have the desire to improve.

I'd be interested to know if anyone that has been working their way up the through the ranks at a job for a few years to increase their pay and get ahead would find it acceptable if the company they worked for suddenly decided to start hiring new people at the same wage they worked years to get to? or just brought everyone to the same level regardless of performance?

My point is a why work hard if Washington is just going to give it to you in a few years anyway?

There a fine line between helping people at the bottom, and hurting those above.

jstand wrote: Maybe I misread, I've been reading this a few pages at at time, but I thought there were people early on (first 5 or 6 pages) that the number needs to be significantly higher than it is now (30% or more), and a lot of debate about inflation, "living wage", and whether or not there should be safety nets. My point is a why work hard if Washington is just going to give it to you in a few years anyway?

I think the 30%+ numbers were mostly being thrown around by people who are opposed to a minimum wage hike to make the idea sounds absurd. I think the highest number a MW increase proponent threw out was 110% of the poverty line for a family of two.

If you are working just hard enough to get raises that keep up with inflation and disappear when the next MW hike comes about, clearly you aren't working that hard. Even still, you are doing better than your coworkers who remain at minimum wage. You maintain a constant level of comfort while they watch their's slowly erode until "oh E36 M3".

Maybe it's just me...I play by the rules, work my behind off, and have been rewarded for my efforts.

I don't mind helping those down on their luck, but not at the expense of those that are making an effort to help themselves improve.

I don't have the solution, but I think ignoring the people who have at least shown a little ambition to help those with none, sets a poor example.

That is the same short sighted efforts to make oneself feel better at the expense of others that annoys me like:

People who allow others to cut in line, while you are being courteous to the person you let go in front, you are being discourteous to those behind you.

The same thing with not following the rules of the road for right of way in order to be "nice", you are being rude to the people behind you.

As someone who has a demanding "day" job and delivers pizzas on the few nights off I do have while my wife struggles to find a job out here in the land of unemployment I really don't have sympathy for for those arguing to raise the wage. Heck there are companies paying $15 an hour to verify google searches from your home computer. I guess it's easier to complain and try to get the government to do something about it instead of actually working hard. The whole thing is pretty ridiculous to me.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: I'm a liberal. Can I have one of these handouts you all are talking about? Aussiesmg and DrBoost, It is still awe inspiring to me to hear boot strap stories like yours. I'm hoping I keep it up and some day have a story like you guys. Just nice to know that America is still the land of opportunity if you work for it.

Yeah, I am liberal these days as well and everyone one wants to associate me with welfare. Just because I believe in a safety net and not blaming the poor for the state of the economy doesn't mean I believe in a free ride. Just the opposite but I also don't believe trickle down economics works, we have had 30 years for it to prove itself and it doesn't work. Why? Greed, pure and simple rich people are rich not because they are altruistic but because they want money and know how to get it. They shouldn't get a tax break for hording money.

Now I don't believe that everything should be done for you or we should tax the crap out of the populous, but someone making six and seven figures a year shouldn't be paying a lower tax rate than someone make $30K. I think a flat tax rate after a certain multiple of the poverty ratio is what we should be doing. I don't care how you make it, it is all taxed the same, with retirement savings withstanding.

I just had my review and my boss told me when a crisis hits the reason he sends me is because I am smart and have a work ethic second to none. I take great pride in that. I am the only admitted liberal at my shop before anyone goes on the I just want it done for me kick.

Seems to me that there is a happy medium between "horribly taken advantage of" and "getting a free ride".

Your reasonable compromise stand has no place in the way topics are discussed today sir. It's all A or all B! Choose! So someone can start yelling...

...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX-Aldx-LM0

Beer Baron wrote: Seems to me that there is a happy medium between "horribly taken advantage of" and "getting a free ride".

To a hitchhiker... those can be the same thing.

Beer Baron wrote: I think the 30%+ numbers were mostly being thrown around by people who are opposed to a minimum wage hike to make the idea sounds absurd. I think the highest number a MW increase proponent threw out was 110% of the poverty line for a family of two.

Ummm... Your $9.00 suggestion represents a 24% increase.

The $15 per hour numbers are NOT being fabricated by evil conservatives to make the idea sound absurd. There are currently protests going on in over 100 cities across the country, and $15 per hour is the amount they are requesting. It's actual NEWS (strange concept, huh?)

Here, let me help you:

Minimum wage protests

Interesting... a simple Google search shows an entire page of links to news agencies all over the country, and they ALL mention $15 per hour. Those berkeleying Republicans are everywhere!

President Obama (your President, and mine) has officially proposed $10.10 per hour, and is grandstanding along with the Senate:

President Obama's proposal

I'm sure most other members here would agree that we all think it is wonderful to listen to you pontificate about your opinions, but would you mind peppering your position with a few facts now and then? It would really help the discussion.

(BTW- for the record, I agree with many of your opinions,, but they really loose credibility when they miss the mark so significantly on the facts. It sounds like you are arguing to hear yourself talk.)

ahutson03 wrote: Heck there are companies paying $15 an hour to verify google searches from your home computer.

Where are they and how legit are they? All that stuff tends to strike me as scams.

Didn't read the whole thread (I'm sure it's exhausting), but $10/hr minimum wage is not insane in 2013.

My first fulltime retail job paid $7/hr--in 1995. $7.75 in 2013/2014 is just pointless.

SVreX wrote: Ummm... Your $9.00 suggestion represents a 24% increase.

Which is definitely less than 30%. I don't think it specifically needs to be that high. I think it should be in the $8-$9 range.

I know people are arguing for $15. I disagree strongly with that number. I know the president is arguing for $10.10. I do not agree with that either, but don't think it is so crazy that I am not willing to hear his arguments. I suspect he is actually using $10 as a starting point to bargain down to the $8-$9 range.

No one on this board is arguing in favor of $15. My statement about people throwing around 30%+ figures was in reference to the discussion on this board.

Remember minimum wage isn't welfare. People still actually have to work and maintain employment.

Quite a few people are talking about minimum wage like its a safety net or that its some form of welfare. Its simply the lowest wage you can legally pay someone. TANF, SNAP cards, medicaid and Home interest deductions are Welfare. Just kidding on one of those.