My first firearm

Twin_Cam wrote: better yet, any Central PA people that can tell me a decent place to shoot this thing?

Ed Rendell would be a good start.

My fathers first shotgun was a 16 gauge 870 Wingmaster he got sometimes after WWII. We still have it. It is dang tank. Years later I was about to "pull the trigger" on the purchase of an 870 that was marketed as a quail gun. I didn't. Dad later upgraded to a Sweet 16 Browning auto 5. We still have that one too. It truly is sweet.

Years ago I bought a 12 gauge Browning auto 5 and it's not near as sweet shooting as the 16.

neon4891 wrote: My first was an ithaca .22 saddle gun when i was 12.

The single shot or the repeater? I still have my Model 49 single shot. Handy little thing. It's really nice with a Willians receiver sight.

The only thing I didn't like was that the chamber was a little tight for CCI Stingers.

thatsnowinnebago wrote: so, uh, GUNS!

ROTFLMFAOFTMFWZOMGBWAhahahahaha

slantvaliant wrote:

neon4891 wrote: My first was an ithaca .22 saddle gun when i was 12.

The single shot or the repeater? I still have my Model 49 single shot. Handy little thing. It's really nice with a Willians receiver sight. The only thing I didn't like was that the chamber was a little tight for CCI Stingers.

I have two of them and I love 'em. One is actually a heavy barrel Ted Williams which was made by Ithica and sold at Sears. They're great for teaching new shooters.

A month or two ago, I was in Cabelas and found another 49 in .22 Magnum on the used rack for some ridiculous price like $69. I carried it around the store for about a half hour before putting it back on the shelf, since I rarely shoot .22 Mag. I probably should have grabbed it anyway. From now on, I plan to buy any of them that I find.

Congrats on becoming a gun owner. When I saw the title I knew it would be an 870 before even reading the thread. A great gun that everyone should own at least one of.

Ignorant; Also a co-op from Remington, they now can stick the rub on pretty well, its the ream operation that is causing problems.

If you ever have problems with ejecting shells the chamber needs to be polished up to remove any ridges/burrs that are grabbing the shell. This can be done with increasing grades of steel wool spun on an arbor in a power drill.

GhiaMonster wrote: Ignorant; Also a co-op from Remington, they now can stick the rub on pretty well, its the ream operation that is causing problems.

We were having all kinds of barrel blank issues that were causing residual stresses that were being brought out in the GFM cold forges. They started using a pierced tubing as a blank instead of a turned blank right before I started and were having tons of problems. When I coop'd there, the cold GFM's were new. So many bent barrels.

maroon92 wrote: I just took my Concealed Pistol License class (you old guys might know it as a CCW)...anyway, I am getting a revolver for personal protection soon...

I am curious what situation you imagine yourself in that you would find that useful?

Just curious, really. I can see how a shotgun in a house might be useful, but a concealed handgun, around town, not really.

Another Dem that has a couple of guns, I am also thinking of getting a CCW. I doubt I will ever carry but I would like to have it anyway. Maybe the 15 years in the Army have scewed my thinking.

aircooled wrote:

maroon92 wrote: I just took my Concealed Pistol License class (you old guys might know it as a CCW)...anyway, I am getting a revolver for personal protection soon...

I am curious what situation you imagine yourself in that you would find that useful? Just curious, really. I can see how a shotgun in a house might be useful, but a concealed handgun, around town, not really.

Can you see any reason for an off duty cop to carry a concealed handgun?

mapper wrote: Can you see any reason for an off duty cop to carry a concealed handgun?

I really don't know what the rules and guidelines are for off duty cops to enforce laws. If they are considered civilians when off duty, I could see some issues (mostly for them). As far as seeing a reason for it, it would depend on the above, and I would only worry about it if they were not current on their training.

I am still curious though what situations a "typical" civilian (I have no idea what the posters situation/qualifications/experiance is BTW) might want to have a concealed pistol for?

I know a few people who carry. Most of them own or manage businesses like delis or resturaunts in somewhat questionable neighborhoods and leave at night with the days cash to deposit. A gun is a pretty good theft deterant in spite of what some people say.

maroon92 wrote: I just took my Concealed Pistol License class (you old guys might know it as a CCW)...anyway, I am getting a revolver for personal protection soon...

Protection? from what? WMU students?

Wally wrote: I know a few people who carry. Most of them own or manage businesses like delis or resturaunts in somewhat questionable neighborhoods and leave at night with the days cash to deposit. A gun is a pretty good theft deterant in spite of what some people say.

A concealed gun? How is that a deterrent? Someone robs you with no weapons? Not likely. Robs you with a knife (probably not real common), OK, as long as they don't surprise you or aren't aggressive. Robs you with a gun, unless you are some sort of quick draw champion, I don't see it. You are probably far more likely to get shot in the last case than if you didn't have a gun.

The point I am trying to make. I am pretty sure in most cases, having a concealed handgun is of little use. Yes, you may want to play vigilante, but there all sorts of problems with that. In some cases it will likely be worse.

I am reminded of a Heinlein story I read long ago. It was basically survival training and the final exam was to survive on an a planet for a period of time with whatever you could carry. The hero had a knife, one of his classmates had a laser rifle. When in an iffy situation the hero climbs a tree and hides, the classmate stands his ground... and if of course eaten. I guess I am saying there is a potential for over confidence.

There's been times I've been very grateful to have a little extra help with me. Like when the shiny happy person, who happened to be white and probably on some type of welfare (conjecture) as well as methamphetamine and whiskey (which I saw), blocked me in the Esprit at the corner of my property, approached my window and tried to get me to get out of my car. It all ended well with no one hurt (I hate paperwork), but it was very comforting to have Mr. Helwan in my lap, and I think his glancing at Mr. Helwan is what led to the peaceful resolution.

I think a revolver is a good choice for a personal defense weapon. Fairly simple to use, good for long term storage loaded. Taurus makes real high quality stuff. Check them out.

OK, good one, but that story doesn't involve a "concealed" weapon.

aircooled wrote: OK, good one, but that story doesn't involve a "concealed" weapon.

It was concealed until needed.

Yes, but the story would be the same if it wasn't a concealed weapon (e.g. laying on passenger seat). Besides I believe the point of a concealed weapon permit is that you carry it on your person. I am not even sure if it is illegal to have a gun in the glove box without a concealed permit as long as it is yours (I suspect that varies by state)

aircooled wrote:

Wally wrote: I know a few people who carry. Most of them own or manage businesses like delis or resturaunts in somewhat questionable neighborhoods and leave at night with the days cash to deposit. A gun is a pretty good theft deterant in spite of what some people say.

A concealed gun? How is that a deterrent? Someone robs you with no weapons? Not likely. Robs you with a knife (probably not real common), OK, as long as they don't surprise you or aren't aggressive. Robs you with a gun, unless you are some sort of quick draw champion, I don't see it. You are probably far more likely to get shot in the last case than if you didn't have a gun. The point I am trying to make. I am pretty sure in most cases, having a concealed handgun is of little use. Yes, you may want to play vigilante, but there all sorts of problems with that. In some cases it will likely be worse.

Deterrent was a bad choice of word, but most of these people had been the target of a robbery attempt. They are usually leaving at night and confronted by a crackhead out mugging people, generally with knives, bats or other such weapons where they plan on intimidating an unarmed person. Obviously if confronted with a gun you will lose you money, but they really don't want to hand over a days take to a nut with a broken bottle. Pulling a gun will beat almost any other type of weapon. I never got a carry permit even though while I was doing repos and tow aways I had a boss that would help me get one. I grew up around a lot of people that carried and talked to alot of them and concluded that in my situation it wasn't necessary. Had I owned the business or dealt with cash I may have felt different but I didn't feel I needed to shoot someone to protect property that wasn't mine and normally went into a situation with a plan of escape if something happened, which it never did, but I'd rather gtfo then stay and shoot back.

aircooled wrote: Yes, but the story would be the same if it wasn't a concealed weapon (e.g. laying on passenger seat). Besides I believe the point of a concealed weapon permit is that you carry it on your person. I am not even sure if it is illegal to have a gun in the glove box without a concealed permit as long as it is yours (I suspect that varies by state)

In most of downstate, if not all of NY, Handgun ownership is pretty much illegal without a permit even to keep it in your closet at home.

OK, thanks, that sounds like a pretty reasonable situation then.

What I wonder is if most people that want a concealed weapon really have such a (pretty specific) need? I would still seems though, that other than leaving the store at night, having the gun would generally be a bad idea.

Wally wrote: In most of downstate, if not all of NY, Handgun ownership is pretty much illegal without a permit even to keep it in your closet at home.

If you carried on in the glovebox of a car, would you need a concealed permit, or a "standard" one?

It does vary by state. The point of the concealed permit (To a lot of people I know) is to have a weapon handy if needed but not have it displayed for all of the world to see and freak out about. I think it would be easy to prove that most victims of violent crime were presented with clues that something was about to happen but did not notice until the gun/knife was in their face. I agree that at that point you are pretty much screwed. On the other hand, how many people saw the warning signs and chose to avoid the bad situtation or gave themselves time to react? If they still could not avoid the situation, they were able to present their handgun and defend themselves. How many of these were able to convince the bad guy to leave simply by presenting the handgun?

FYI, I was military police and spent a lot of time interacting with the local law enforcement so I tend to see the world a little differently than most. I will agree that there are a lot of people out there who can legally have a firearm that probably should not even be allowed to procreate.

aircooled wrote:

Wally wrote: In most of downstate, if not all of NY, Handgun ownership is pretty much illegal without a permit even to keep it in your closet at home.

If you carried on in the glovebox of a car, would you need a concealed permit, or a "standard" one?

If it was able to be shot outside of your home or a range you would need a carry pemit, there isn't a distinction between concealed or not. If I left the house with a gun I would probably want it on me though because leaving a loaded gun laying around seems like a bad idea.

Yes, it was concealed until needed. That's the purpose of a concealed carry. If you keep it concealed all the time, even when you need it, it isn't going to do you much good. Maybe you're confusing "concealed carry" with "concealed carry until you need it to be not concealed anymore," which is what the laws are really about.

Most states, even Texas, pretty much forbid you to keep a loaded gun in the passenger compartment of your vehicle, concealed or not, without a concealed carry permit, Arizona being an exception if it is visible, I believe. And, most states consider a weapon or anything else in your passenger compartment to be on your person. I'm sure some Esquires could provide case law and that it varies to some extent from state to state, but from what I've seen, if it is under your seat, they consider it in your pocket, unless they can twist it to their advantage to consider it not in your pocket. In other words, whatever makes it easier for the cop to bust you, that's what they consider it.

And, BTW, the meth/whiskey head had just tried to get a woman out of her SUV further up the hill doing the same thing, and before that, took out a hundred feet of barb wire fence further back. When I got to the house, I called the PoPo, as the woman did. I don't think they ever did anything, but I never saw him again. Maybe he found a new meth lab to frequent, or maybe he decided that his life choices were not leading to where he wanted to be, sobered up and bought a Miata.