My own little gas tax thread

Ok, I was going to post this about the time the other gas tax thread started the decent into the crapper. This is not a political thread so please leave that other thread dead.
I don't pay road tax, not really. I have a diesel I run on veggie oil, it's legal here. The funny thing is, I contacted the state asking how to pay my road tax. I explained what I'm doing and said I can track my miles and send them a check monthly, quarterly or what ever. I assume they thought I was speaking Klingon because they had no idea what I was talking about. They said there is no way for me to send in my moolah. So, since my diesel expenditure is about $200 a year I'm paying enough road tax to sweep 1/4 mile of the shoulder of a secondary road I guess.
Anyway, my situation isn't that different from others. A prius owner isn't paying his "fair share" of road tax since his travel is augmented by an electric motor, even more so with a BEV. Heck, even conventional IC-driven cars are getting more and more efficient, thus paying less taxes. So, what's a state to do?
I think there are two possibilities.
1. yearly inspections were your mileage is recorded, and billed.
2. little black boxes that track your miles, you are billed.
The second option would allow the gub'ment to send you a ticket anytime the black box recorded a speed greater than what's posted. What do you folks think?

If I had to participate in either option 1 or option 2, I would chose option 1. I can see that opening up a lot more odometer fraud, though. I see something similar happening with the black boxes. If you leave any device alone with a hacker, the hacker will figure a way to bypass it.

I think the original spirit of the current fuel tax system is so that a more fuel efficient car will pay less in taxes. I don't think anyone expected people to make their own fuel or use electricity again.

If you'd like to send someone a check, I'll PM you my address.

I don't see a problem. From what I can see there seems to be no shortage of people driving around giant cars that are doing a great job at paying road taxes.

Besides, if electrics become an issue, you can just increase the reg fees. WAY more efficient (no overhead) then some sort of inspection (for states that don't have them) / government bugging operation.

Greater efficiency is offset by more people driving.

Are the taxes meant to be 'fair' or are they just supposed to pay the bills? By that I mean, should heavier cars (trucks, 18 wheelers) be paying more per mile than lighter cars? How much road money comes from gas taxes anyway? We all get benefit even if we don't drive. The ambulance comes for me on a road whether I pay gas taxes or not. If we're not really aiming for equality (we pay for our fair share of benefit) then do we really need to fix anything?

mazdeuce wrote: Are the taxes meant to be 'fair' or are they just supposed to pay the bills?

It depends entirely upon whom you ask this question, the subject is usually irrelevant to the answer... Probably beyond the scope of this thread...

the UK has a "road tax" where you get a little sticker that goes on the windshield to let the world (and the police) know you paid to be on the road

No answer to your question, but from the opposite side of the equation, I can tell you that the share of the Illinois Motor Fuel tax that our village receives can only be spent on specific things. For example, we have 2-piles of gravel at our maintenance lot. The MFT pile can only be used to repair the roads.

option 2 or 3 would get people all in a tizzy for sure, and i don't trust the gubmint to not screw me when it comes to something like this. hell, they can't even keep the signs updated often enough so that the speed limit is the same in both directions some places.

My cousin and I were having this exact same discussion a few months ago. He is a transportation engineer, and was saying the current tax system is quickly becoming insufficient, unable to cover the rising costs of maintaining the current infrastructure, much less expanding it as necessary.

I still prefer they charge the tax at the pump, even if that means inevitably raising it, versus charging by mileage. I'm ok with super efficient cars, or cars that rarely need gas like yours DrBoost paying less tax. Hell you're just being resourceful and recycling, I think that's good, why not be rewarded in a way for it?

I guess my biggest concern for mileage based charges is getting one big fat bill each year to pay. My wife and I commute, long distances, in opposite directions. Even if I pay the same at the pump, its soo spread out, easy to not think much of it I guess.

mazdeuce wrote: Are the taxes meant to be 'fair' or are they just supposed to pay the bills? By that I mean, should heavier cars (trucks, 18 wheelers) be paying more per mile than lighter cars?

technically 18 wheelers do.. They generally get single digit MPGs. Also, as an ex-commercial driver, I can tell you that you best save your receipts AND you stop in every state you drive through to get fuel. The states that think you are not paying enough will send you a bill

I'll admit that I don't know how much of the fuel tax is supposed to be for roads. I just know that I'm not paying my fair share any way you shake it. With hybrids and the few electrics out there, I'm no longer alone. They'll figure out a way to keep the coffers full. When newbies pop up on the grease boards and ask "man, this is soo cool! Why don't the governments make this a legal fuel that you can fill up at the pump?" The answer is always "because once it becomes the norm, it'll be taxed to the point where it's still $4.00 a gallon"

If they would stop pissing away money on stupid stuff, they could fix everything and expand the system. HWY 17 in downtown Charleston is getting renovated as we speak. Instead of using concrete, they are using granite for the curbing. There isn't any granite within 100 miles of Charleston. The damn center barrier is stucco with nice fancy brick as a top cap. Not only is it expensive, it going to be destroyed the first time a car hits it, which happens on a weekly basis. Sure, it'll nice to look at with the trees and all, at least for the first week or so. Stupid!

They have also spent millions cutting rumble strips into the edge of just about every road in the state. Also a waste of money. Stop trying to idiot proof everything. It just dilutes the gene pool.

Mileage based I could go with on the condition they remove all fuel based taxes, but there is no way the government is putting a "black box" in any of my vehicles. I would be the first in line to have the hack installed. I trust the government as far as I could throw the White House. It's run by idiots.

In reply to mad_machine:

The discussion of 18 wheelers made me think of something else....who do you think the increased fuel costs are going to be passed on to? Maybe my pay the increased cost at the pump plan isn't such a grand idea....

Toyman01 wrote: If they would stop pissing away money on stupid stuff, they could fix everything and expand the system. HWY 17 in downtown Charleston is getting renovated as we speak. Instead of using concrete, they are using granite for the curbing. There isn't any granite within 100 miles of Charleston. The damn center barrier is stucco with nice fancy brick as a top cap. Not only is it expensive, it going to be destroyed the first time a car hits it, which happens on a weekly basis. Sure, it'll nice to look at with the trees and all, at least for the first week or so. Stupid!

Are you SURE your state is actually footing the bill for the fancy curbs and medians? In a lot of cases, when a plan is proposed for redevelopment, the developer (who owns the adjacent property) will propose improvements along the roadway, pay for them and at the completion of the project, the state takes back over the maintenance. I have seen stuff around here where the developer will improve and widen miles of road on their own dime, just because the roads go past their sites.

A few years back when the recession hit hard, Virginia Department of transportation laid off approximately 60% of its staff statewide, that was the figure I was hearing. So they are cutting spending.

failboat wrote: In reply to mad_machine: The discussion of 18 wheelers made me think of something else....who do you think the increased fuel costs are going to be passed on to? Maybe my pay the increased cost at the pump plan isn't such a grand idea....

Fuel costs for shipping are almost always passed onto the consumer in some way or another. As I worked for a rental company, I know the invoices I got for the client almost always had a delivery fee..

I have a friend that has all diesel powered vehicles. He has a tank on his land where he has diesel delivered the is for "Off highway use only" so no road taxes.

Is it legal? No! But until the state catches him he get the cheaper fuel. And I don't expect he will as he lives in a rural area with farms etc. and they do buy OH diesel. Now if he lived in the middle of a big city?

Other than interstates, everything, in my perfect little world, road related would be bought and paid for by your state however that state deemed the appropriate way to do that (separate by county, whatever). In my ideal state, we'd all get a bill "road tax" as a line item to our state income taxes. Earn income in our state? May x% as part of the road tax. The road tax covers all roads. No money comes in to do so from the fed. There, no incentive, no hidden gas taxes, no tolls, etc.

People have stated multiple times in this thread that the current fuel tax isn't enough to pay for repairs or improvements to the roads. Is that true or just political posturing? Was it originally enough and now it isn't? If so why not?

Failboat, this road has no businesses on it. It's a through street to get from one side of town to the other and only about two miles long. It's even fenced down both sides so pedestrians can't cross other than at the lights. They've been working on it for almost a year now. Knowing Little Joe, the mayor, and his political maneuvering, he's probably got you paying for it too.

Tuna, 100% agree. That should include all things, not just the roads.

Toyman01 wrote: Failboat, this road has no businesses on it. It's a through street to get from one side of town to the other and only about two miles long. It's even fenced down both sides so pedestrians can't cross other than at the lights. They've been working on it for almost a year now. Knowing Little Joe, the mayor, and his political maneuvering, he's probably got you paying for it too. Tuna, 100% agree. That should include all things, not just the roads.

I kind of figured that we'd agree. We ought to share a beer as well as car rebuild tips next time we're at the same race.

MrJoshua wrote: People have stated multiple times in this thread that the current fuel tax isn't enough to pay for repairs or improvements to the roads. Is that true or just political posturing? Was it originally enough and now it isn't? If so why not?

I suspect it's true that the money budgeted isn't enough any longer to pay for roads. As cars get more fuel efficient, and folks leave this state in droves income for the state is less and less. But the underlying reason is folks squandering our money.
Sorry, not trying to start another thread that'll get locked but I think we all can agree that governments don't spend our money as well as we do.

In reply to tuna55:

Deal, you bring the beer and I'll bring the vodka. We can get sh@# faced and solve all the worlds problems and build the ultimate lemons car. Should be done before midnight.

/jack

OP said: The funny thing is, I contacted the state asking how to pay my road tax.

You contacted "the state?" Who exactly did you contact? The fact(?) that whoever you spoke to was too lazy or stupid to take your money should be evidence enough that the people you're desperately trying to throw more of your money at are too lazy and stupid to even TAKE it, much less spend it efficiently or effectively.