new disease discovered

So, it seems as if at least half of you feel that the judge was "sly" and that the delivered 'punishment' is somehow better than jail time. most of you feel he will likely get his rich ass in trouble again. my question is this: what happens when he gets drunk and hits 5 people with his damn car and kills/maimes them? something he could never have done had he been locked up.

the reason for punishments in this country is THREE fold, IMO. not simply for justice, though that sentiment has its merits in a free nation, but also for announcement, and public safety. they used to hang people publicly, for the same basic reason: announcement. to make sure all the people in the land understood the consequnces of their actions. but the most important reason for it, at least in this case, and most cases like it, is for the protection of the law abiding citizens from which you jail them away from. one large point of prison is to keep people like you and me from getting mowed down by his drunk ass.

now, im fairly light hearted when it comes to most law breakers. im very fond of a three strike type of setup with most things. first shot, ok, bad boy, slap your wrist, move on. second shot? ok, fine, you werent listening. hit you a bit harder, and make it last a bit longer. and when your dumb enough to swing the third time, to hell with you. you are obviously not a contributing member of society. but in cases such as this, where FLAGRANT disregard of the law and the safety of others is not only likely but obvious, i say we need to skip the strikes and go for the fly-out from the first hit.

i remember seeing a "cops" or "worlds wildest police chases" or something of that nature where they were following a drunk driver through a corn field. they said on the voice over that when they get her stopped, which they will, it will be her 28th DUI arrest. TWENTY-EIGHTH! how she managed to skip a HUGE prison sentence after the 3rd, or even the 4th, or for the love of God the tenth is beyond me. i wont go into how i think the judges involved should be hung publicly, or the lawyers castrated with a spoon, but im sure you can get the idea here.

my take? i think a bullet in the skull is the therapy he needs, and save two for his worthless parents. then donate all their money to the families of his victims, and do it all on prime time TV in times square.

-J0N

Wally wrote: The awful prick in me cares little about his rehabilitation and would feel better if he was being traded around the prison weight room for cigarettes. I know it's justice but some lessons should be painful.

FTFY

I agree whole-heartedly. Federal "pound him in the ass" prison...

jmthunderbirdturbo wrote: So, it seems as if at least half of you feel that the judge was "sly" and that the delivered 'punishment' is somehow better than jail time. most of you feel he will likely get his rich ass in trouble again. my question is this: what happens when he gets drunk and hits 5 people with his damn car and kills/maimes them? something he could never have done had he been locked up. the reason for punishments in this country is THREE fold, IMO. not simply for justice, though that sentiment has its merits in a free nation, but also for announcement, and public safety. they used to hang people publicly, for the same basic reason: announcement. to make sure all the people in the land understood the consequnces of their actions. but the most important reason for it, at least in this case, and most cases like it, is for the protection of the law abiding citizens from which you jail them away from. one large point of prison is to keep people like you and me from getting mowed down by his drunk ass. now, im fairly light hearted when it comes to most law breakers. im very fond of a three strike type of setup with most things. first shot, ok, bad boy, slap your wrist, move on. second shot? ok, fine, you werent listening. hit you a bit harder, and make it last a bit longer. and when your dumb enough to swing the third time, to hell with you. you are obviously not a contributing member of society. but in cases such as this, where *FLAGRANT* disregard of the law and the safety of others is not only likely but obvious, i say we need to skip the strikes and go for the fly-out from the first hit. i remember seeing a "cops" or "worlds wildest police chases" or something of that nature where they were following a drunk driver through a corn field. they said on the voice over that when they get her stopped, which they will, it will be her 28th DUI arrest. TWENTY-EIGHTH! how she managed to skip a HUGE prison sentence after the 3rd, or even the 4th, or for the love of God the tenth is beyond me. i wont go into how i think the judges involved should be hung publicly, or the lawyers castrated with a spoon, but im sure you can get the idea here. my take? i think a bullet in the skull is the therapy he needs, and save two for his worthless parents. then donate all their money to the families of his victims, and do it all on prime time TV in times square. -J0N

I get where you're going, and you make a VERY solid argument. I guess the question is this- He would have been out by 18. From what we can tell, he was tried as a minor, and he gets a free pass after less than 2 years in the "not pound me in the ass" prison. What's to stop him from doing it again then? Let's face it, the rate of recidivism in this country is insane. See your 28th DUI thing. People are repeat offenders. This judge is banking (IMO) on that happening. That way, he effectively gets to skip the 1-2-3 strikes you're out bit and go directly to jail for a long ass time. I get where you're going, I'm just not sure it was the right plan. Different opinions, and all. I guess the real bottom line is- we aren't changing the decision now, we're just waiting to see what happens.

During this discussion, I keep thinking about the families who wont be thinking the same way most of us are.

I say the little E36 M3 should have done the time. I thought he would stay in JV until he was 21. A year in rehab for a 16 YO!! The parents are still liable.

In reply to N Sperlo:

They won't, and I don't blame them.

mndsm wrote:

jmthunderbirdturbo wrote: So, it seems as if at least half of you feel that the judge was "sly" and that the delivered 'punishment' is somehow better than jail time. most of you feel he will likely get his rich ass in trouble again. my question is this: what happens when he gets drunk and hits 5 people with his damn car and kills/maimes them? something he could never have done had he been locked up. the reason for punishments in this country is THREE fold, IMO. not simply for justice, though that sentiment has its merits in a free nation, but also for announcement, and public safety. they used to hang people publicly, for the same basic reason: announcement. to make sure all the people in the land understood the consequnces of their actions. but the most important reason for it, at least in this case, and most cases like it, is for the protection of the law abiding citizens from which you jail them away from. one large point of prison is to keep people like you and me from getting mowed down by his drunk ass. now, im fairly light hearted when it comes to most law breakers. im very fond of a three strike type of setup with most things. first shot, ok, bad boy, slap your wrist, move on. second shot? ok, fine, you werent listening. hit you a bit harder, and make it last a bit longer. and when your dumb enough to swing the third time, to hell with you. you are obviously not a contributing member of society. but in cases such as this, where *FLAGRANT* disregard of the law and the safety of others is not only likely but obvious, i say we need to skip the strikes and go for the fly-out from the first hit. i remember seeing a "cops" or "worlds wildest police chases" or something of that nature where they were following a drunk driver through a corn field. they said on the voice over that when they get her stopped, which they will, it will be her 28th DUI arrest. TWENTY-EIGHTH! how she managed to skip a HUGE prison sentence after the 3rd, or even the 4th, or for the love of God the tenth is beyond me. i wont go into how i think the judges involved should be hung publicly, or the lawyers castrated with a spoon, but im sure you can get the idea here. my take? i think a bullet in the skull is the therapy he needs, and save two for his worthless parents. then donate all their money to the families of his victims, and do it all on prime time TV in times square. -J0N

I get where you're going, and you make a VERY solid argument. I guess the question is this- He would have been out by 18. From what we can tell, he was tried as a minor, and he gets a free pass after less than 2 years in the "not pound me in the ass" prison. What's to stop him from doing it again then? Let's face it, the rate of recidivism in this country is insane. See your 28th DUI thing. People are repeat offenders. This judge is banking (IMO) on that happening. That way, he effectively gets to skip the 1-2-3 strikes you're out bit and go directly to jail for a long ass time. I get where you're going, I'm just not sure it was the right plan. Different opinions, and all. I guess the real bottom line is- we aren't changing the decision now, we're just waiting to see what happens.

ok .. that has merit … except that if he does it again … what's to say he doesn't kill another 4 people ? the decision to "not punish" him then gets a bit harder to explain

In reply to wbjones:

From my understanding it gets compiled at that point, the remainder of the 10yrs of the probation behind bars plus the new sentence(and oh jee, look at that, he has a prior for this E36 M3 compounding his sentence)

wbjones wrote:

mndsm wrote:

jmthunderbirdturbo wrote: So, it seems as if at least half of you feel that the judge was "sly" and that the delivered 'punishment' is somehow better than jail time. most of you feel he will likely get his rich ass in trouble again. my question is this: what happens when he gets drunk and hits 5 people with his damn car and kills/maimes them? something he could never have done had he been locked up. the reason for punishments in this country is THREE fold, IMO. not simply for justice, though that sentiment has its merits in a free nation, but also for announcement, and public safety. they used to hang people publicly, for the same basic reason: announcement. to make sure all the people in the land understood the consequnces of their actions. but the most important reason for it, at least in this case, and most cases like it, is for the protection of the law abiding citizens from which you jail them away from. one large point of prison is to keep people like you and me from getting mowed down by his drunk ass. now, im fairly light hearted when it comes to most law breakers. im very fond of a three strike type of setup with most things. first shot, ok, bad boy, slap your wrist, move on. second shot? ok, fine, you werent listening. hit you a bit harder, and make it last a bit longer. and when your dumb enough to swing the third time, to hell with you. you are obviously not a contributing member of society. but in cases such as this, where *FLAGRANT* disregard of the law and the safety of others is not only likely but obvious, i say we need to skip the strikes and go for the fly-out from the first hit. i remember seeing a "cops" or "worlds wildest police chases" or something of that nature where they were following a drunk driver through a corn field. they said on the voice over that when they get her stopped, which they will, it will be her 28th DUI arrest. TWENTY-EIGHTH! how she managed to skip a HUGE prison sentence after the 3rd, or even the 4th, or for the love of God the tenth is beyond me. i wont go into how i think the judges involved should be hung publicly, or the lawyers castrated with a spoon, but im sure you can get the idea here. my take? i think a bullet in the skull is the therapy he needs, and save two for his worthless parents. then donate all their money to the families of his victims, and do it all on prime time TV in times square. -J0N

I get where you're going, and you make a VERY solid argument. I guess the question is this- He would have been out by 18. From what we can tell, he was tried as a minor, and he gets a free pass after less than 2 years in the "not pound me in the ass" prison. What's to stop him from doing it again then? Let's face it, the rate of recidivism in this country is insane. See your 28th DUI thing. People are repeat offenders. This judge is banking (IMO) on that happening. That way, he effectively gets to skip the 1-2-3 strikes you're out bit and go directly to jail for a long ass time. I get where you're going, I'm just not sure it was the right plan. Different opinions, and all. I guess the real bottom line is- we aren't changing the decision now, we're just waiting to see what happens.

ok .. that has merit … except that if he does it again … what's to say he doesn't kill another 4 people ? the decision to "not punish" him then gets a bit harder to explain

And you're right, that's the gamble everyone is taking. But really, if he's gonna kill 4 more people, he's gonna kill 4 more people. Doesn't matter if he does it now, after he's released at 18, after he's released at 21, or in 20 years. THIS way, even the most minor infraction can land him away for a long time... I mean hell, jaywalking can get his probation revoked. And Texas is a no-berkeley-around kind of state, so you know they're going to be watching him. And who knows... maybe he actually realizes how easy he got off, and turns around and donates his life to Jesus or something. We're talking about punishing the E36 M3 out of the kid, what happens if rehab works?

I'm late to this discussion, but have been hurt by a drunk driver, let me share my experience. Had been previously injured in a car accident (tree fell on car), 1st week walking without a cane. Left a friends house and got in my car only to be struck by said drunk driver seconds later. She fled

Continued: the scene and I was able to follow her to her home and call the police. Realized I was hurt and taken to hospital. Cliff's notes: 40 years later I still suffer from the injuries and had to have spinal surgery in 1995. I have no sympathy for drunk drivers and see no justification for light sentences.

In reply to Don49:

I don't think most if not all of us have sympathy for the driver. I don't know if you're insinuating we do, but I completely agree. I think that in this case, since the accused was tried as a juvenile, this was a good direction to go. No "hard time" would have been served, and now if he doesn't walk on egg shells, he is berkeleyed.

ASSuming this twerp really does 'suffer' from 'affluenza', he likely won't ever 'see the light'. I base this on a few childhood friends who were from wealthy families, one was a girl who was street racing a 280ZX outside of Myrtle Beach, flpped it and killed her passenger. She got probation even though she was drunk at the time (before DUI was taken really seriously) and last time I saw her still showed no signs of having 'got it'.

Curmudgeon wrote: ASSuming this twerp really does 'suffer' from 'affluenza', he likely won't ever 'see the light'. I base this on a few childhood friends who were from wealthy families, one was a girl who was street racing a 280ZX outside of Myrtle Beach, flpped it and killed her passenger. She got probation even though she was drunk at the time (before DUI was taken really seriously) and last time I saw her still showed no signs of having 'got it'.

In which event, he goes to jail forever.

Datsun1500 wrote: How do you explain to the Father of the next person he kills that it's OK, We will punish him this time? We promise.

You don't. But let's say he went to jail under the maximum allowable for his age and the way he was tried. He'd be out AT THE LATEST at 21.... what's to stop him from walking out the door, grabbing a rack of Beast, and doing it all over again? Honestly this kid has a better chance of not repeating if he's not in jail... jail isn't rehab and teaching you what you did is wrong, jail is punishment. Very rarely do people learn from jail sentences.

A little time in a cell will reallllllly scare the E36 M3 out of most 16 yr old kids. 2 weeks made a friend of mine go from breaking into cars and doing more drugs than a 16 year old should, to joining the army.

In reply to Kenny_McCormic:

Unfortunately that can have the alternative effect.......some of the little bastards enjoy prison and will do worse E36 M3 to get tossed back in.

mndsm wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: ASSuming this twerp really does 'suffer' from 'affluenza', he likely won't ever 'see the light'. I base this on a few childhood friends who were from wealthy families, one was a girl who was street racing a 280ZX outside of Myrtle Beach, flpped it and killed her passenger. She got probation even though she was drunk at the time (before DUI was taken really seriously) and last time I saw her still showed no signs of having 'got it'.

In which event, he goes to jail forever.

In this country typically life in prison means eligible for parole in ten unless there's a minimum, such as 'twenty years to life'.

so, then, back to the bullitt then? the issue here is each and every persons individual conscience. when you go drinking, and you consider whether or not your ok to drive, what do you ask your self? will there be cops on my route home? am i close to the limit, but the limits too low anyways, so im ok? what if i get a DUI? what if i hit a curb or something?

what most of us don't ask is "what if i hit 5 people on the side of the road, killing them and ruining their lives and the lives of their families? what if i go to prison for the rest of my life for that, and ruin my life and lives of my family? or worse, what if the jury decides that my willful disreguard for the law warrants my uselessness as a contributing member of society and decides to hang me in the public square?"

no one asks these things, cause our justice system doesnt do these things to DUI shiny happy people.

if you take a life, whether or not there was intent to take life, as long as there was a crime being committed at the time of the death, its murder 1. plain and simple.

just shoot em in the head. no jail, no explaining to the parents that he wont be punished this time, "but NEXT time boy, we'll get 'em then!" no re-explaining the same thing to the same parents when he gets out in 10 years on a life sentence. no justifying it to the next people he injures or kills due to his neglegence.

most importantly, at last call, when guys who have had even a few beers, and go to reach for their keys, maybe, just maybe, they will recal last saturday nights special where that punk kid got drunk, ran over 5 people, and they hung him in the streets for it...

-J0N

The sentance is a asinine. He didn't just get drunk and knock down a fire hydrant. He killed for people and crippled a fifth. If he used something besides a car they would have tried him as an adult and thrown away the key. Since it was done while driving he should have been treated as an adult automatically if he was a licensed driver as the stated deemed him competent to operate a vehicle.

yamaha wrote: In reply to wbjones: From my understanding it gets compiled at that point, the remainder of the 10yrs of the probation behind bars plus the new sentence(and oh jee, look at that, he has a prior for this E36 M3 compounding his sentence)

doesn't help the victims or their loved ones

mndsm wrote:

wbjones wrote:

mndsm wrote:

jmthunderbirdturbo wrote: So, it seems as if at least half of you feel that the judge was "sly" and that the delivered 'punishment' is somehow better than jail time. most of you feel he will likely get his rich ass in trouble again. my question is this: what happens when he gets drunk and hits 5 people with his damn car and kills/maimes them? something he could never have done had he been locked up. the reason for punishments in this country is THREE fold, IMO. not simply for justice, though that sentiment has its merits in a free nation, but also for announcement, and public safety. they used to hang people publicly, for the same basic reason: announcement. to make sure all the people in the land understood the consequnces of their actions. but the most important reason for it, at least in this case, and most cases like it, is for the protection of the law abiding citizens from which you jail them away from. one large point of prison is to keep people like you and me from getting mowed down by his drunk ass. now, im fairly light hearted when it comes to most law breakers. im very fond of a three strike type of setup with most things. first shot, ok, bad boy, slap your wrist, move on. second shot? ok, fine, you werent listening. hit you a bit harder, and make it last a bit longer. and when your dumb enough to swing the third time, to hell with you. you are obviously not a contributing member of society. but in cases such as this, where *FLAGRANT* disregard of the law and the safety of others is not only likely but obvious, i say we need to skip the strikes and go for the fly-out from the first hit. i remember seeing a "cops" or "worlds wildest police chases" or something of that nature where they were following a drunk driver through a corn field. they said on the voice over that when they get her stopped, which they will, it will be her 28th DUI arrest. TWENTY-EIGHTH! how she managed to skip a HUGE prison sentence after the 3rd, or even the 4th, or for the love of God the tenth is beyond me. i wont go into how i think the judges involved should be hung publicly, or the lawyers castrated with a spoon, but im sure you can get the idea here. my take? i think a bullet in the skull is the therapy he needs, and save two for his worthless parents. then donate all their money to the families of his victims, and do it all on prime time TV in times square. -J0N

I get where you're going, and you make a VERY solid argument. I guess the question is this- He would have been out by 18. From what we can tell, he was tried as a minor, and he gets a free pass after less than 2 years in the "not pound me in the ass" prison. What's to stop him from doing it again then? Let's face it, the rate of recidivism in this country is insane. See your 28th DUI thing. People are repeat offenders. This judge is banking (IMO) on that happening. That way, he effectively gets to skip the 1-2-3 strikes you're out bit and go directly to jail for a long ass time. I get where you're going, I'm just not sure it was the right plan. Different opinions, and all. I guess the real bottom line is- we aren't changing the decision now, we're just waiting to see what happens.

ok .. that has merit … except that if he does it again … what's to say he doesn't kill another 4 people ? the decision to "not punish" him then gets a bit harder to explain

And you're right, that's the gamble everyone is taking. But really, if he's gonna kill 4 more people, he's gonna kill 4 more people. Doesn't matter if he does it now, after he's released at 18, after he's released at 21, or in 20 years. THIS way, even the most minor infraction can land him away for a long time... I mean hell, jaywalking can get his probation revoked. And Texas is a no-berkeley-around kind of state, so you know they're going to be watching him. And who knows... maybe he actually realizes how easy he got off, and turns around and donates his life to Jesus or something. We're talking about punishing the E36 M3 out of the kid, what happens if rehab works?

I really have a hard time believing that half a million $$$ rehab, playing with horses is going to do much to re-driect this shiny happy people life

jmthunderbirdturbo wrote: so, then, back to the bullitt then? the issue here is each and every persons individual conscience. when you go drinking, and you consider whether or not your ok to drive, what do you ask your self? will there be cops on my route home? am i close to the limit, but the limits too low anyways, so im ok? what if i get a DUI? what if i hit a curb or something? what most of us don't ask is "what if i hit 5 people on the side of the road, killing them and ruining their lives and the lives of their families? what if i go to prison for the rest of my life for that, and ruin my life and lives of my family? or worse, what if the jury decides that my willful disreguard for the law warrants my uselessness as a contributing member of society and decides to hang me in the public square?" no one asks these things, cause our justice system doesnt do these things to DUI shiny happy people. if you take a life, whether or not there was intent to take life, as long as there was a crime being committed at the time of the death, its murder 1. plain and simple. just shoot em in the head. no jail, no explaining to the parents that he wont be punished this time, "but NEXT time boy, we'll get 'em then!" no re-explaining the same thing to the same parents when he gets out in 10 years on a life sentence. no justifying it to the next people he injures or kills due to his neglegence. most importantly, at last call, when guys who have had even a few beers, and go to reach for their keys, maybe, just maybe, they will recal last saturday nights special where that punk kid got drunk, ran over 5 people, and they hung him in the streets for it... -J0N

Wow. Just wow.

mndsm wrote:

Datsun1500 wrote: How do you explain to the Father of the next person he kills that it's OK, We will punish him this time? We promise.

You don't. But let's say he went to jail under the maximum allowable for his age and the way he was tried. He'd be out AT THE LATEST at 21.... what's to stop him from walking out the door, grabbing a rack of Beast, and doing it all over again? Honestly this kid has a better chance of not repeating if he's not in jail... jail isn't rehab and teaching you what you did is wrong, jail is punishment. Very rarely do people learn from jail sentences.

that's why he should have been tried as an adult …. if all the "behind the scenes" was known … I'd bet that papa's money had something to do with the juvie court decision

but I just a cynical shiny happy person with regard to those that have that kind of money

(even while I'm hoping to with the lottery LOL)