New lawn tractor advice

I recently bought a house with a big flat yard and lots of huge, beautiful trees. The kind of trees that are going to bury me under tons of leaves. Currently I own a 20 year old Lawn Boy self propelled mover that's simply not going to cut it. The wife and I were starting to rake leaves today and cut the grass and it looked pretty hopeless. My next door neighbor loaned me their Sears lawn tractor and I was done in no time. They had the three bag bagger attachment which worked like a dream. The wife is now sold on buying one of our own. I'm not interested in buying something used.

Budget is $2000 max, prefer less. Needs only to be a lawn tractor and have a bagger system of some sort. What do I buy new?

John Deere

MTD

I currently have a 15 y/o Husqvarna and love it... but the next new tractor will be a John Deere, no doubt.

If John Deere, see what your nearest implement dealer has used.

The non-Home Depot mowers can be repaired like grandpa's ax, and parts are available to pretty much the beginning of time

Skip the big box stores. The "name brand" stuff they sell there is really junk. The John Deeres and Cub Cadets we sell at HD are really frightening.

This sounds like a sensationalized exaggeration, but I would honestly rather buy a 1985 John Deere with 1000 hours on it before I bought a brand new John Deere from HD. Dead serious.

^^^^ I concur with all of that, and while i DID read your comment on used, i would recommend you lose that pre-requisite. for $2000 new, your looking at MAYBE a mid-grade tractor, that will dissapoint you on occasion with power, fuel consumption, and quality. But, like mentioned above, hit up an implement dealer, look at 2-4 year old models with low hours and service records, and you can get 3x the tractor for that same 2K.

thats what i would do, anyways...

-J0N

I guess I should clarify.... for $2000 new, you probably won't get something that is as bulletproof as a "real" used tractor.

I'll give you a couple examples. I paid $500 for a 197x Bolens 14hp hyrdo with a super scant 125 hours. It came with a plow blade, chains, a weight bar, and some other goodies. The mower deck probably weighs 175 lbs. It has 1" sealed bearings and the cutting blades are 1/8" thick. A new cub cadet from HD uses such thin stamped steel for the deck, you can carry the whole thing with one hand like a suitcase, and the pulleys are mounted to thin stamped steel brackets that bend everytime you engage the PTO. People are complaining that the decks are rusting through after 2-3 seasons, and the lightweight blades bend from the smallest of sticks. The carburetor has to conform to strict EPA rules, so the first sign of water, debris, or anything other than flawless fresh fuel will not operate it.

I worked for HD as a repair tech. it was my job to fix these things day in/day out. They are junk. If you want anything new, good, and 42" deck and up with a bagger, you're looking more at the $3500-5000 range new.

Not trying to bust a bubble, just fair warning from a lifelong tractor guy and several years in the business.

Are you planning on bagging every mow or just the leaves? If every mow then the rear engine snapper seems to be the one to buy; they haven't changed much in 30 years so they must be doing something right.

If you aren't going to bag every time, then get a used tractor with sealed beam headlights and refurb it. Sealed beams usually mean old enough to be before they turned to junk. Bearings for the deck, belts, pulleys, and going through the motor will get you mechanically there, powder coating and paint will get it looking good. Spend the rest of your $ renting a yard vacuum for spring clean up and leaf removal in the fall.

With the old stuff lug nuts on the rear usually mean a real tractor vice just a mower, and real gears vice hydrostatic means one less thing to worry about. I have a 70's Simplicity I love, and a 60's Bolens that defines versatility.

please get a "real" tractor. I have gotten very tired of fixing my Father's Girlfriend's tractor

I wish I had gotten a heavier used unit. I bought a $1800 Cub Cadet 6 years ago to take care of my 1.5 acres. It has racked up about 100 hours, about three of them were trouble free. I get about three uses before something needs to be replaced. I have changed the deck spindles, numerous belts, and the engine started smoking at about 60 hours. I gave up on it last year when the pin holding the PTO clutch popped out and ruined the clutch, a $350 piece. My neighbor has a real Cub Cadet about 15 years old that he does no maintance on. He jump starts it, uses it and leaves it where he finishes and it just keeps going.

$2000 max leaves you few options. I would go used and over shoot your grade, but if you are determined to buy new you have few options.

John Deere - buy green pay green in this category. You get the deere name and most of the time a deere dealer that will refuse to work on it. Your transzxle will be the first thing to go in this class. Deere uses a Tuff Torq K40 and a Private Label Kawasaki engine now.

Husqvarna, Sears, Bolens, Ariens, weed eater- These are all the same tractor with different engines and body work. All built in the armpit of South Carolina. Worst plant in their entire global network build all of these tractors. Ariens at $1250 with a 42" deck is the same as a Sears with a 42" deck. Different body work but the working bits are the same.

MTD, Toro, Cub Cadet - Toro is the outlier here. They only let MTD build a certain price point for them and this is it. Otherwise, you are back to the Getting into a little better class of mower, you are also bumping the top of your budget. Larger Toros are built by Toro, but again out of your price point.

Simplicity and Snapper, both owned and manufactured by Briggs and Straton and both are very good products. Just watch which one you get for the environment you are using. Both of these are moving up your price point these days, personally I think they are a good value.

The trick in this price point is the gear and tires. Most of the hydrostatic units have a K40/K46 Tuff Torq transmission in them or a T2 Hydrogear. The T2 is a stronger transmission, but we are looking at marginal differences. There is no difference between a K40/K46 transaxle.

Get the smallest tire possible and you will do fine. Switch the transaxle fluid over to Rotella T synthetic. In our testing we have found that is the best fluid for this class of transaxle. We bench mark everything else against this.

That being said I would get the Ariens, check to make sure it is assembled properly (99% of their warranty issues are assembly problems, horrible factory), and switch the engine and the transaxle over to full synthetic and be very happy with your purchase.

Remember, smallest tire, verify proper assembly, switch to all synthetic and enjoy.

SOURCE: Engineer for Tuff Torq for 4 years.

Guess I'll disagree (again). A number of these newer machines run very well, and their ultra-tight turning radius is addictive. Several folk I know have the newish red Sears mowers, and none have had a problem with them. Watching at the auctions, they're bringing more money than some of the Kubota machines.

Go with the hydro transmission, it's a whole lot nicer than a crash box. Foot or hand control is personal preference.

The latest Sears hard steel blades are remarkable. They don't chip or dull for anything. I did manage to actually break one on a friends machine (it wasn't easy). Take it in and Sears will give you a replacement for free.

Oh yeah, I forgot, the life expectancy of all lawn mowers and lawn tractors in this class is 200 hours. (it is in your owners manual.)

The synthetic will help extend that but otherwise you are on your own.

Also NO HEAVY ATTACHMENTS!!!! Good way to kill it.

So you are in Pennsylvania, if you want a blade for snow or the like, get a used Sub Compact Utility tractor (Simplicity makes a great one here and the transaxle is over built, You are looking for Prestige, Legacy XL and the Conquest. This will also get you into the Yanmar built John Deeres, which are what John Deere go their reputation off of.) but you are in used again.

I'll add a vote for old. The beginning of the summer I was looking at riders. Lots of plastic in anything in my price range and most of the decks felt as thick as a car fender. So, I started looking at the used market. Still a lot of junk but, after some digging, I ended up buying a 1971 Sears Companion for $75. It ran, sort of, and it wasn't a rusted hulk. I spent another $800 on a new 17hp engine and replacing all the questionable bearings and pulleys. I came in under budget and got a better than new mower. Runs like new, cuts like new. The only plastic in the entire machine is the steering wheel and the knob on the throttle lever. It should last another 40 years and Sears still carries parts for is.

I've never owned one, but these older Ariens tractors seem to have a good reputation around here and they usually dont last long when up for sale.

I bought a new at the time (1996) 18 hp "Scotts" tractor from Home Depot. I had it 5 years and only did general maintenance with no trouble. I had 1.3 acres to mow. Didnt have a snow thrower or any other attachments.

When I moved I bought an old Bolens Rider and although its ancient, its been trouble free and is a lot sturdier than the Scotts tractor.

I always thought mulched up leaves were good for your grass, lots of nutrients, etc.

Wow, you guys have some deep knowledge on the topic.
What is your opinions on Steiner, used?

In reply to JohnRW1621:

I have never used them. Being on the manufacturing side we had unlimited parts to break.

how big is this "big" yard?

i essentially mowed a 2 acre yard 3 times the other day to get rid of the leaves from about 20 massive oak trees- the first pass was done with the deck all the way up to push the leaves into 2 big rows... the second pass was with the deck a couple of inches off the ground to spread the rows back out and chop them up a bit, and the third was done at a 45 degree angle wit the deck at the same height as the second pass.. this took just over an hour and the leaves all but disappeared and all their nutrients will make the grass grow thick and green next year...

the machine that did this was an early 70's vintage JD 220 (i think) lawn tractor with a 46" deck and a 14HP Kohler engine that has approximately a million hours on it... picked up a fully functional second one that is in better shape for $200 a couple of years ago, but that one chewed up the drive belt last year and haven't gotten around to fixing it...

I'll echo most of the sentiments above (Foxtrapper being wrong, as usual ). I first bought a 1971 Simplicity tractor with a little 5 hp engine. That was in 1992, and I used it for the next 12 years, replacing only the belts (once).

Then I was given a Sears hydrostatic mower that was twice the size and almost 3x the HP that had a blown engine. Sourced an engine off of Craigslist that nearly cost what the mower was worth...apparently these are trouble prone and in demand. Took two engines to get a good one (Craigslist seller was nice enough to replace the oil burning first one). I've had it for probably 6-7 years now, and it is faster than the old Simplicity was so shaved 15 minutes off my mowing time. But the thing is a piece of junk. The deck is flimsy. No matter what I adjust, the mow is never completely level. The hydro trans is slow in reverse. The tires lose air between mows. The battery randomly gets drained (multiple batteries later). They are all made by either MTD or Husqvarna to a price.

The minute I win the lottery I'm buying a Kubota.

John Deere GT series. Starting in 1999-early/mid 2000s. They had a 225,235,245 series. You may have to go to a 225 for the price, but may get a higher series if your lucky. I own a 245 and my BIL has owned a 225 for over a decade with no issues. A real Deere garden tractor.

Great advice so far. The yard is about an acre total, pretty much flat. I don't have time to refurb an old mower, I bought a house that needs a complete remodel and have an old Datsun that I would rather work on than a lawn tractor. Still only considering new. Based on advice in this thread I see that the Sears and Airens should be the same under the skin:

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-42-in-21hp-briggs-stratton-hydrostatic-turn/p-07128851000P?prdNo=50&blockNo=50&blockType=G50

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ariens-42-in-21-HP-Briggs-Stratton-Automatic-Gas-Front-Engine-Riding-Mower-960460054/203642000?N=25ecod%2FNtk-All%2FNtt-ariens%2525252Briding%2525252Bmower#.Um5aThAzc1I

I'm leaning towards the Ariens with the Craftsman triple bagger that my neighbor has:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_07124892000P?mv=rr&clicked=true

That combination is just over $1500. Thoughts?

curtis73 wrote: Skip the big box stores. The "name brand" stuff they sell there is really junk. The John Deeres and Cub Cadets we sell at HD are really frightening. This sounds like a sensationalized exaggeration, but I would honestly rather buy a 1985 John Deere with 1000 hours on it before I bought a brand new John Deere from HD. Dead serious.

+1 on buying a used commercial mower versus a new big box store mower. I'll add that typical lawn tractors are not all that good at picking up leaves, especially if they are at all damp. Something like this works better:

Or this:

These front mount mowers, or even zero turns are also much more useful if you have a lot of trees or other obstacles to deal with. If I had a lawn tractor I'd also have to go out with a small mower every time to cut around things. With the front mount I can do everything with one machine.

Kubota used to make a small diesel mower. I would look for one of those now if I had to replace my old Honda riding mower.

But I would also look for the newest and biggest Honda tractor I could find. You should be able to get a well cred for one for well under your budget. No idea how many hours are on my Honda (no hour meter), but its about 14 YO. All I've ever done to the motor is replace the plug once, clean the air filter religiously and change to oil twice a year. I have had to work on the Spicer transmission a few times, but its always been the input pully. Only the Harmony mower had the Spicer. The bigger Hondas had a Honda transmssion.

Steiners are interesting machines. Highly capable, expensive, and not maintenance free. Think of them as the Mercedes of mowers if you will. I would not bother with one for generic lawn mowing.

I've worked in mower shops over the years myself, as well having had many of the great and horrible names. Honestly, two of the consistent toughest most reliable have been Murray and Snapper. Crude usually, not suited for competition, easy and cheap to fix when they do break. Darn things tend to go for years with abuse and neglect.

Some engines are problematic, regardless do the riding mower they are in. The v twin Briggs for example. Others are "improved" like what Deere does to perfectly good carburetors.

Fwiw, I've dumped almost all my old named wonders (Deere, gravely, Ariens, simplicity, ect) in favor of the newer $25 Murray that refuses to do anything but run and cut, year after year after year.