I hope for the best outcome for him, pretty scary.
I really hope that the NFL really didn't want to restart the game after 5 minutes too. To me it looked like the teams decided they weren't going back at it more than the NFL deciding
I hope for the best outcome for him, pretty scary.
I really hope that the NFL really didn't want to restart the game after 5 minutes too. To me it looked like the teams decided they weren't going back at it more than the NFL deciding
I've gotta say that if you need a bit of a lift today, just spend some time reading through the notes that are coming in with the GoFundMe donations.
https://www.gofundme.com/f/mxksc-the-chasing-ms-foundation-community-toy-drive
It was interesting to hear that the teams called the game off vs the NFL. Scary stuff - good that he made it to one of the best hospitals for more than 100Mile radius. Defib paddles, CPR, and an ambulance on the field is scary stuff.
alfadriver said:I'm pretty sure an event like this was never planned for.
I sure hope the NFL was prepared for something like this. They've had enough warning from MLB (Darryl Kile in 2002), and the NHL (Jay Bowmeister in 2020, February - which now makes me wonder if Covid played a part).
It could be that the way it played out was more or less exactly to the plan, for reasons like have been mentioned by you and others (crowd control, messaging), it could even be that Joe Buck's assurance that the game would go on was part of that for some reason. But there is no way they didn't have at least an outline of the procedures ready. I think "they" even have a pregame meeting before every game for something like this.
In reply to mtn :
From a medical standpoint, sure (they had the defibrulator right there). From a procedural standpoint- not sure.
I think the idea of the game going on would be some assurance that they knew he would be ok- that's the sign I would see for sure. And I'm betting Buck wanted that to happen.
The reporting I got that the game was never going to restart was from Adam Schefter who was in a conference call overnight with the NFL. Understand people not really wanting to accept it.
mtn said:alfadriver said:I'm pretty sure an event like this was never planned for.
I sure hope the NFL was prepared for something like this. They've had enough warning from MLB (Darryl Kile in 2002), and the NHL (Jay Bowmeister in 2020, February - which now makes me wonder if Covid played a part).
It could be that the way it played out was more or less exactly to the plan, for reasons like have been mentioned by you and others (crowd control, messaging), it could even be that Joe Buck's assurance that the game would go on was part of that for some reason. But there is no way they didn't have at least an outline of the procedures ready. I think "they" even have a pregame meeting before every game for something like this.
Plus numerous soccer players most notably Christian Erikson at the last Euros who fortunately is playing again.
Keith Tanner said:I've gotta say that if you need a bit of a lift today, just spend some time reading through the notes that are coming in with the GoFundMe donations.
https://www.gofundme.com/f/mxksc-the-chasing-ms-foundation-community-toy-drive
Just read some little blurbs in The Athletic, he's still in the ICU in critical condition.
His gofundme has now eclipsed $6.1 million.
According to an interview on NPR this morning, the on site medical staff includes a trauma surgeon, a dentist and a couple of other doctors. Not just a couple of ambulance jockies, so I'd assume the care he was getting on scene was as good as it could be in any ER and getting him "stabilized" was more important than racing to get him to the nearest hospital.
One of the things to come out of it though is that our local autocross group is gonna spend a few bucks to buy and have an AED in the trailer in case a cone dodger has the big one.
It would not surprise me that the NFL has top level medical staff at every game. It's a dangerous sport, people are injured every game. I suspect the "CPR" the announcers were talking about during the live broadcast was probably an AED being deployed.
What does surprise me is that this particular injury doesn't happen more often, honestly. How many player-player collisions happen in a season?* I suppose it's because a hit from another human is less concentrated on a single spot than a hockey puck or a lacrosse ball and the players wear chest armor.
* google says an average of 154 plays per game. Figure there are going to be at least 8 player-player hits in each of those plays, that's 1232. There are 272 games in the regular season, so that's a third of a million hits before the playoffs start.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
As far as I can see, the hit has to be pretty specifically targeted- like directly into the heart. So how many of those million hits are in the same location that you do chest compression. Second, it has to be hard and local enough to be interrupt the heart. Third, it has to be at the right phase of the heart cycle- where a sudden blow will interrupt the heart.
From a hit standpoint, with the armor that the shoulder pads add, getting through 1 and 2 is infrequent enough that 3 makes this a one in 50 year thing on the NFL scale.
It has happen in hockey more often, mostly because hockey pads are relatively thin for a puck strike over the heart. (on the hockey board, after I had posted about Chris Pronger, more of these events had been posted more recently).
Theoretically from a non-doctor.
Keith Tanner said:It would not surprise me that the NFL has top level medical staff at every game. It's a dangerous sport, people are injured every game. I suspect the "CPR" the announcers were talking about during the live broadcast was probably an AED being deployed.
What does surprise me is that this particular injury doesn't happen more often, honestly. How many player-player collisions happen in a season?* I suppose it's because a hit from another human is less concentrated on a single spot than a hockey puck or a lacrosse ball and the players wear chest armor.
* google says an average of 154 plays per game. Figure there are going to be at least 8 player-player hits in each of those plays, that's 1232. There are 272 games in the regular season, so that's a third of a million hits before the playoffs start.
I know nothing about sportsball or medicine, but I heard a doctor on NPR yesterday saying that the heart is only succeptible to this type of disruption for around 30milliseconds per cycle. Rough math says that it would be 30 out of 400ms (assuming 150bpm), so ~7% of hits? Still 21,000.
Apparently ESPN is standing by their report of the NFL trying to restart after 5 min.
If that's true, I have much more respect for the Bills and Bengals coaches/teams and much much less for the NFL
alfadriver said:As far as I can see, the hit has to be pretty specifically targeted- like directly into the heart. So how many of those million hits are in the same location that you do chest compression. Second, it has to be hard and local enough to be interrupt the heart. Third, it has to be at the right phase of the heart cycle- where a sudden blow will interrupt the heart.
From a hit standpoint, with the armor that the shoulder pads add, getting through 1 and 2 is infrequent enough that 3 makes this a one in 50 year thing on the NFL scale.
It has happen in hockey more often, mostly because hockey pads are relatively thin for a puck strike over the heart. (on the hockey board, after I had posted about Chris Pronger, more of these events had been posted more recently).
Theoretically from a non-doctor.
Also, if his heart stopped due to the hit, he would not have gotten up at all.
Antihero said:Apparently ESPN is standing by their report of the NFL trying to restart after 5 min.
If that's true, I have much more respect for the Bills and Bengals coaches/teams and much much less for the NFL
The NFL was, is, and always will be about money. All they saw was loosing money. Players are expendable.
Appleseed said:Antihero said:Apparently ESPN is standing by their report of the NFL trying to restart after 5 min.
If that's true, I have much more respect for the Bills and Bengals coaches/teams and much much less for the NFL
The NFL was, is, and always will be about money. All they saw was loosing money. Players are expendable.
Unfortunately you are right
Professional athletes are to the teams like brake pads are to cars, wear items.
ESPN is reporting on "remarkable improvement" where he's apparently holding people's hands and appears to be opening his eyes. Not out of the woods, but can see the clearing.
Toebra said:Professional athletes are to the teams like brake pads are to cars, wear items.
Considering the number of deaths in auto racing compared to all other sports- that statement is worse for auto racing.
alfadriver said:Toebra said:Professional athletes are to the teams like brake pads are to cars, wear items.
Considering the number of deaths in auto racing compared to all other sports- that statement is worse for auto racing.
The contrast between how this has been reported and how such things are handled in motorsports is pretty striking. How many times have we seen fatal or near-fatal accidents happen in races, and the race almost always continues. I guess the two sports just have different risk assumptions.
Anyhow, more detail on Hamlin's recovery: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/05/damar-hamlin-able-to-communicate-in-writing-asked-doctors-who-won-on-monday/
One sign of that improvement involves his neurological functioning. A statement from the Bills earlier in the day said that doctors felt Hamlin’s neurological functioning is intact and the doctors who spoke to reporters on Thursday afternoon gave an example of that.
Hamlin cannot speak because he is still intubated, but he is able to follow commands and write to doctors to respond to questions. He has also asked some questions, including a query about whether the Bills won the game against the Bengals.
Appleseed said:The NFL was, is, and always will be about money. All they saw was loosing money. Players are expendable.
This isn't limited to the NFL....
Improvement continues- Hamlin had his breathing tube removed over the last evening, and today he took part in a video conference with his team. Inching closer to the clearing of the woods.
Also, the game will NOT be made up and the teams have agreed to multiple scenarios for the playoffs and who hosts- since this was a key game for a #1 seed.
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