No Honey, I never cheated on you...

....I was, uh...in a Guatemalan prison...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/01/AR2010100107299.html

U.S. infected Guatemalans for STD tests

By Rob Stein Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, October 2, 2010

The United States revealed on Friday that the government conducted medical experiments in the 1940s in which doctors infected soldiers, prisoners and mental patients in Guatemala with syphilis and other sexually transmitted diseases.

The experiments, led by a federal doctor who helped conduct the famous Tuskegee syphilis study in Alabama, involved about 1,500 men and women who were unwittingly drafted into studies aimed at determining the effectiveness of penicillin.

The tests, which were carried out between 1946 and 1948, infected subjects by bringing them prostitutes who were either already infected or purposefully infected by the researchers and by using needles to open wounds that could be contaminated.

I heard this last night on NPR, on the way home from work...Had to marvel that once again, the Amis were their arrogant selves. And we wonder where the rest of the world gets its ideas about the US... (shakes head wandering off muttering to self...)

In reply to Mikey52_1:

As if no other country hasn't performed similar, heinous experiments on its' own or another country's citizens?

Ummmm, get real......

oldsaw wrote: In reply to Mikey52_1: As if no other country hasn't performed similar, heinous experiments on its' own or another country's citizens? Ummmm, get real......

maybe. but it sure doesn't help

if the current admin. wants to conduct experiments on me with prostitutes my phone no. is ...... I'm with Oldsaw on this one - at least something good came from it, i.e. penicillin, and it was an awful long time ago. worth an official apology, a victims fund, but national self-flagellation, nope.

nutherjrfan wrote: ....but national self-flagellation, nope.

This.

It's been a long-established fact that the US government has failed to meet "certain" standards. Dredging-up an experiment conducted five decades ago serves no useful purpose, unless one takes some kind of perverted satisfaction in exposing such things.

My first thought was "Why the heck is this news?" I mean, just deal with the issue and move on. The only purpose to dredge it up now is that the media gets its kicks out of humiliating America.

As far as the US government was concerned at the time, Guatemalans weren't people, they were banana pickers.

Oceana has always been at war with Eastasia.

Hitler did worse things and the victims never got a piece of tail out of it.

In reply to DoctorBlade:

The reason it's news is everyone hopes America is better then that.

Joey

It is a good idea to reveal it. That's how we prevent it from happening again.

Hitler got away with what he did because at the time, no one wanted to believe that a "civilized" country was capable of it.

It's still disturbing, because these things stay in the collective memory for a long time, and taint peoples perceptions.

Yes, I know the US has done things 'in the name of science' or whatever cause is popular at the time, and that some good has come of it, and that other countries have done the same. That still doesn't make it right, or something to aspire to. We're s'posed to be the beacon for the world...news like this coming out doesn't help.

Mikey52_1 wrote: It's still disturbing, because these things stay in the collective memory for a long time, and taint peoples perceptions. We're s'posed to be the beacon for the world...news like this coming out doesn't help.

Apologies were due; the US government was guilty of an atrocious act. It is, indeed, good to show some concilation for something that occurred decades ago.

However, it encourages the "bashers with an agenda" with more proof that America is EVIL; sadly, there a lot of people who buy into that. Worse is that many of those same people are Americans.

I didn't realize we were not supposed to be critical of America. Or is it because it happened a few years ago?

Joey

I would call 62 more than a few

In reply to DaveEstey:

I dunno. In the scheme of things, its not very long ago. Its recent enough to matter.

Joey

In reply to joey48442:

So, what do you think of the odds that the US is lauded (in the not so distant future) for its' massive humanitarian efforts a la tsunami aid, HIV intervention in Africa, or aid for earthquake victims in places like Haiti?

Those matter, too. But not to those who dwell on the negatives to forward an agenda.

Hella good point oldsaw

This is important because there are living relatives of other experiments that hapened over here, on US soil. Brookhaven National Labs, Brookhaven, N.Y., was Camp Upton run by the military. My Mom was a secretary in the typing pool, and received "vitamin" shots in the 50s. They weren't. A FOI suit is making its way through the system, as well as other suits for into on what exactly was in the injections.

She died a nasty, painful death in her 50s, with symptoms that are normally genetic, except there is no family history of such at all. And guess what's strarting to show up in me.

Legally I have to be vague on the disease, for it would jeapordize our legal standings. Google Camp Upton, US Army, 1950s experiments, and sometimes a bit of info pops up...

Regardless, if it can happen over there, it can--and has--happened over here. And maybe now. And that's one of the reasons why "old" stories can be very relevant.

I don't dwell on this, it's just "there" and I don't want it to be masked under "National Security" forever.

Gonna be a slow year for flu shots, for sure.

oldsaw wrote: In reply to joey48442: So, what do you think of the odds that the US is lauded (in the not so distant future) for its' massive humanitarian efforts a la tsunami aid, HIV intervention in Africa, or aid for earthquake victims in places like Haiti? Those matter, too. But not to those who dwell on the negatives to forward an agenda.

I hope we are. Those are all great things. But doing great thing doesn't cancel out bad things. I'm not trying to further an agenda, buy as an American I am saddened that stuff like this can happen, and to say it happened a long time ago and doesn't matter is crap, as there are lots of things in our distant past that matter very much. To be clear, I am NOT ashamed to be an American, but as an American, I am ashamed that this happened. Does that make any sense?

Joey

joey48442 wrote: I didn't realize we were not supposed to be critical of America. Or is it because it happened a few years ago? Joey

Actually, joey, yes.

It's like saying Ford built the '71 Pinto, so the '11 Fiesta is crap, and you'll never buy another Ford. It's like saying that because Fiat used poor grade Russian steel alloys in the '70s, modern 500s made in Mexico are GOING to rust in the showrooms.

It's saying "look, back in the '40s, American did experimenting on people in prison, so American NOW is evil and horrible."

And that position is almost as morally bankrupt as the position the people espousing it are tying to "shed light on."

America is not an individual. America is a collection of people that changes over time. We put kids to work in dangerous factoies in teh past. Interesting to note, but not relevant now. We used to make a lot of great cars and led in manufacturing and textiles. Interesting to note, but not relevant now. We used to be at war with Germany and Japan. Interesting to note, but not relevant now. We used to put orphans in asylums for the criminally insane and work them to death. Interesting to note, but not relevant now.

It's not that you excuse it, you simply don't use it as something that has any bearing on what's happening now, other than a learning point not to do it again. The fact that we're willing to look at it and use it as an example of what not to do in the future is WHY we can be a beacon to the rest of the world. We just need to stop the self loathing that seems to go along with understanding the past.

I think a look back at the entire past history of civilization is good enough evidence that all governments, organizations and bands of men are capable of unspeakable atrocities in the name of some thing or other. God, Money, Empire... To think that ours is past that sort of nonsense is naive.

In reply to Chris_V:

I'm sorry, but I never said because America did bad things in the past that America is crap now. It wasn't evil then and it's not evil now. I just mean that only because it happend in the past does not make it less important. I don't think ford should be bashed nowadays because of the pinto, and I don't think anyone should be for this either. I do think the it's terrible that it happend, and I would expect more out of the America now, as well as the America then. That's all.

Joey