No Politics - Tariff Pricing Discussion - Honda Civic Type R

I see this thread getting sideways and crashing and burning but please try to keep it alive.

I noticed that Carmax has twelve used 2024 Honda Civic Type R's and three of them are available with nine of them reserved.

As it's made in Japan and now subject to a tariff do you thing folks are speculating on pricing and grabbing the used ones at the lower prices? Or at least locking them down to see where prices are going?

I'm assuming if the new ones go up that the used prices will rise with the tide?  Does anyone think this is why they are being reserved or is this a normal day over at Carmax? Any other cars in this category?  

Datsun240ZGuy said:

As it's made in Japan and now subject to a tariff do you think folks are speculating on pricing and grabbing the used ones at the lower prices?

 

Yes.

So, from my experiences, any chance that companies have to raise prices and blame it on something else, they will.  If the market doesn't accept the price, they will eventually come back down.

Whether it's a global pandemic, a dockworker strike, a teamsters strike, or the threat of an economic war, most companies will raise their prices and blame it on that "thing".  Even if it doesn't actually impact their cost structure.

Once that happens, the prices of previously used items goes up as well.

If we all just ride the wave and hold off on paying the (probably) inflated prices, the sellers get the message quicker.

I have already heard of people buying used cars in order to flip once the car prices go up.

Used cars don't have a tariff.  Used cars are already here.  

Will used cars go up in price because new cars go up in price?  Your guess is as good as mine.

It's a tough call because the effect of tariffs on your economy is not likely going to be positive, and demand may drop. 

Datsun240ZGuy said:

I see this thread getting sideways and crashing and burning but please try to keep it alive.

Just like...

Never mind. I'll see myself out.

There's been a verse of song lyrics rattling around in my head lately... so with all apologies to Conor for paraphrasing:

But Greed  is a bottomless pit

The car price's a joke they're just taking a piss

And the whole world must watch the sad comic display

If you don't need a car, start runnin' away!

Random Spring 2025 used car data point:

I offered my 2022 Outback to Carvana in February at lease end. They offered $23,400. On March 26th they offered $24,000. Today they offered $25,000. 

Strange things are afoot at the Circle K. 
 

[I bought it instead of selling, but watching in case there is a good EV deal brewing. Which I expect there will be.]

From the type r purchasing perspective it's easier to buy for a set price at carmax than getting a dealer to sell a new one at MSRP

Noddaz said:

Used cars don't have a tariff.  Used cars are already here.  

Will used cars go up in price because new cars go up in price?  Your guess is as good as mine.

That depends on how many people get priced out of new cars and join the used car market.

Looking at the issue from another angle, if used prices go up, residuals aren't hurt as much so leasing will still be roughly the same.  If used car prices don't go up, residuals crash and leasing is less economically palatable.  Because these two outcomes weigh against each other, I think the outcome is somewhere in the middle.

Peabody said:

It's a tough call because the effect of tariffs on your economy is not likely going to be positive, and demand may drop. 

The point of tariffs is literally to allow non tariffed companies raise their prices to allow their businesses to be more sustainable, or bring in higher profits.  So some people will see a positive but the consumers will pay more no matter what.

I can say without a doubt that new car sales went through the roof in the last twenty days or so. Used cars also went but not at the same rate. 
 

In just bought something myself because everything I was looking at was 95-99% foreign parts. Personal opinion is the very high end will stay up if the market holds. For a type R I would buy anywhere but a Honda dealer. Man are they sniffing their own farts in that car. 

The market on lightly used cars is going to get tricky in the short run. Dealerships and the Carmax/Carvana set are scooping up inventory as fast as they can. I've gotten numerous emails in the last five days from dealerships trying to buy out my wife's lease on her one year old Ioniq 5, and my Mom's 2020 Toyota Sienna seems very, very appealing to Carvana. They've raised their offer twice since last Wednesday.

So if you're in the market for something lightly used, that's who you're competing with at the moment. 

wearymicrobe said:

Personal opinion is the very high end will stay up if the market holds.

I'm not so sure about that. I generally stay out of the other parts of the forum but the rennlist (Porsche) people generally aren't happy. Last night I saw a thread where someone was already looking at paying $75k adm and the dealer told them the 25% tariff would add on to that, making their ~$250k car basically cost $400k which is absolutely ridiculous even to them. I suppose Porsche dealers are in the unique position to be able to cover the tariff cost by reducing adm...but that screws up their whole marketing (and profit) system so I'd guess that's going to be a last resort. And the market was already cooling such that markups were generally decreasing anyway.

dps214 said:

wearymicrobe said:

Personal opinion is the very high end will stay up if the market holds.

I'm not so sure about that. I generally stay out of the other parts of the forum but the rennlist (Porsche) people generally aren't happy. Last night I saw a thread where someone was already looking at paying $75k adm and the dealer told them the 25% tariff would add on to that, making their ~$250k car basically cost $400k which is absolutely ridiculous even to them. I suppose Porsche dealers are in the unique position to be able to cover the tariff cost by reducing adm...but that screws up their whole marketing (and profit) system so I'd guess that's going to be a last resort. And the market was already cooling such that markups were generally decreasing anyway.

They will complain and then pay the difference. The base and S models will not sell like always and if Porsche is smart they will use productions space to make the "specail" ones that are not really that special. 

The cost there really is the dealer ADM, which Porsche doesn't control and sees no money from.  So it's possible the dealer ADM's will go down, or go away.  Porsche pricing, without ADM, is already really high.  I "built" a Carrera T just for fun and with just the performance options it was over $150k, for a car that's basically a base Carrera...

The GR Corolla forums & FB groups are starting to talk about tariffs.  I'm glad I finally found one.

I'm curious about pricing and lending implications since I'm in banking ,though not lending, but I still pay attention what they are up against. If prices get inflated due to tariffs then a loan is made and 6 weeks later tariffs are canceled and prices drop, equity drops too which isn't great for lenders or somebody financing. This is all a tricky situation. 

It's funny that it always seems like it's something that makes me say "I'll keep what I've got longer". My 2017 Ram 1500 I bought new in 2017 for $28k. The Covid and chip shortage then inflation and now tariffs......it just seems like it's never a time where it makes financial sense to buy a new or even gently used cars with inflated pricing. 

crankwalk (Forum Supporter) said:

My 2017 Ram 1500 I bought new in 2017 for $28k. The Covid and chip shortage then inflation and now tariffs......it just seems like it's never a time where it makes financial sense to buy a new or even gently used cars with inflated pricing. 

^This.. Even without the tarrifs, the market has been completely insane since Covid.  For S&G i just went to the RAM website to check new prices.

https://www.ramtrucks.com/ram-1500.html?sid=913821&KWNM=dodgeram1500&KWID=43700081249471205&TR=1&channel=paidsearch&gclid=b5163479be1b122a20d2538f20263315&gclsrc=3p.ds&msclkid=b5163479be1b122a20d2538f20263315

28k to 40K MSRP in 8 years, i think i'll keep my 91 Chevy for awhile.

My fearless prediction is that new tariffs will be very short-lived.  Every retailer of anything is going to go beserk on their elected officials, who have the power to stop the tariffs.  They are already afraid to have town hall meetings with their constituents but when the local business leaders (aka donors) start banging on the door...

If tariffs actually hit, I'm not buying anything I don't absolutely need (food) with the expectation that they won't last and I expect a lot of people will behave the same.  More pressure on retailers -> more yelling -> more motivation for Congress to act.

In reply to crankwalk (Forum Supporter) :

Everyone knew COVID would either become endemic or burn out at some point. The question was what the bullwhip effect within the supply chain would look like. For semiconductors, we saw the shortage result in higher prices, then a memory glut, then things even back out. The problem now is that all the production nodes are being blocked out by high-value AI accelerators rather than consumer processors.

For cars, they could be about back to normal rates of production, but shareholders and execs really liked the fat margins on high-end cars and saturated the market. That situation was working its way out when the trade war opened up.

This round of wait and see is a quite a bit more problematic because there are no checks and balances on the implementation of tariffs (You can thank the outcomes of Smoot-Hawley for that). The fact that the tariffs seem both arbitrary and capricious makes it impossible to plan ahead because there is no definitive finish line. The tariffs could be on for the next 4 years because other countries don't want to play ball, or they could be off tomorrow because the president had a good day of golf, then back on Friday because he had a bad round.

The best thing that could happen at this point is Congress passing the already introduced bill that would make them expire after 60 days unless ratified and not allow them to be renewed. 

I work in ERP, primarily with manufacturers, and they're pissed that the supply chains they just finished rebuilding are borked again. Pissed to the point where they're not trying to incorporate tariffs into landed cost anymore. It's a loud and proud line item on invoices, explicitly stating where the additional cost came from when they pass it onto their customers.

mfennell said:

My fearless prediction is that new tariffs will be very short-lived. 

And ... 45 minutes later a '90 day pause' is announced and the market shoots up 6%.  A few people with the right connections just made a LOT of money.

EDIT: except China.  Now at 125%. 

Just an interesting point.

At work today was a relatively new car in for service.  It was a new client and she took us up on our offer of "show and tell" of her car inside the building.

What I overheard was that normally she just gets a new car every few years but because of market uncertainty, she's going to buy out the lease and keep this one, and wants it properly maintained and everything questionable dealt with.

That's one fewer new car sale but also one fewer car on the used market.  This is some of that "somewhere in between" that I was alluding to.

Long time Honda Fanboi here. 

ITS Tiger Eye Pearl got traded in at 900 miles. 6K under new MSRP. Went to test drive it. Liked it. Went across test drive new CTR (2500$ under msrp). Went to then test drive a GRC. $5100 off MSRP. Came home with it (8 ays ago). Need to make a thread. Hard to say it, but of the three, GRC gave me the fizz of all my Hondas of my youth...  

GIven they are giving away GRC here locally - I made a thread on GR forum, and so far 3 people bought them using that thread.

Wife purchased CTS5 Blackwing, $6000 off MSRP 6MT, dealer has 3 sitting, > yesterday.