Noob carpentry question:

Some of the stairs on my deck were splitting. One split in half when I stepped on the nose and I damn near killed myself as I was carry a heavy chop saw at the time it happened.

Anyway, time to refinish the deck. I replaced the stair treads with new lumber. The board that goes on the face of the framing under the stair treads WAS a 1x5.xx board. It wasn't supporting the stair tread as well, and appeared to be a contributing factor in the splitting. Any logical reason that replacing these with 2x4s wouldn't work? 2x5.xx would be an option as well, but the table-saw I'm borrowing sucks and I don't want to rip down that many boards. I don't think the small 1" gap under that board would be a problem... would it?

Technically, a 2x12 shouldn't "need" the riser tread at all, but being outdoors does bad things to wood. Personally, I'd add a third stringer (the green lines in your diagram) in the middle to support the loads. A riser will add support to the front edge of the tread, a 3rd stringer will add support to the entire tread.

The 1 x 5.xx you mention is known as a 5/4 x 6 deck board. If you go 2 x 6 dimensional, it'll actually be 1.5 x 5.25 actual. No ripping required.

Ian F wrote: Technically, a 2x12 shouldn't "need" the riser tread at all, but being outdoors does bad things to wood. Personally, I'd add a third stringer (the green lines in your diagram) in the middle to support the loads.

There are 3 stringers already. The direct on the split was perpendicular to the diagram... basically the nose of several of the treads snapped off.

ProDarwin wrote: There are 3 stringers already. The direct on the split was perpendicular to the diagram... basically the nose of several of the treads snapped off.

Ah, I see. Then your 2x6 idea should help. Or it's simply time to replace the treads. Like I said, outside wood doesn't last forever, even if pressure-treated.

Another option: add supports to the inside of the stringers that extent out to the edge of the tread.

Your nosing (overhang of the tread) should remain about 1".

Technically, the tread width is required to be a minimum of 11" wide. This is measured from face of riser to face of riser. So, if your treads are 2x12 like you have drawn, and your riser sits OVER the tread, it would reduce the tread width to 10" (less the overhang). If the riser sits BEHIND the tread, it works.

akamcfly wrote: The 1 x 5.xx you mention is known as a 5/4 x 6 deck board. If you go 2 x 6 dimensional, it'll actually be 1.5 x 5.25 actual. No ripping required.

Should've been more specific in my first post. The gap where the riser board should go is 5 1/8". The boards that I pulled out of there look like they were ripped down - they have the slight radius on 2 edges from the sawmill, and sharp corners on the other 2 edges from a table saw.

Ian F wrote: Ah, I see. Then your 2x6 idea should help. Or it's simply time to replace the treads. Like I said, outside wood doesn't last forever, even if pressure-treated.

Just finished the tread replacement, going to tackle the risers (and busted pickets) tomorrow.

SVreX wrote: Your nosing (overhang of the tread) should remain about 1". Technically, the tread width is required to be a minimum of 11" wide. This is measured from face of riser to face of riser. So, if your treads are 2x12 like you have drawn, and your riser sits OVER the tread, it would reduce the tread width to 10" (less the overhang). If the riser sits BEHIND the tread, it works.

Damn. Yes, I would only end up with 10" treads with the 2" risers. Guess its back to "5/4 x 6 deck board"?

Wait a minute... I worded that poorly and got you off track.

The tread "width" doesn't technically change regardless of what thickness riser you use, because it is measured from face-of-riser to face-of-riser. NOT from face-of-riser to edge-of-nosing.

You can make it feel worse by tucking the tread under the riser.

So, if you started with a 1" nosing, but switched the riser to a 2x, you would only have a 1/2" nosing.

The solution is to loosen the treads and tug them out to maintain the 1" nosing.

Did that make sense?

I like to build my stairs with the riser BEHIND the tread. That way, I can screw from the back of the riser into the back of the tread, which adds more strength to the tread.

SVreX wrote: Wait a minute... I worded that poorly and got you off track. The tread "width" doesn't technically change regardless of what thickness riser you use, because it is measured from face-of-riser to face-of-riser. NOT from face-of-riser to edge-of-nosing. You can make it feel worse by tucking the tread under the riser. So, if you started with a 1" nosing, but switched the riser to a 2x, you would only have a 1/2" nosing. The solution is to loosen the treads and tug them out to maintain the 1" nosing. Did that make sense?

So... undo/redo the work I just did? That sounds sucky.

Face of riser to face of riser is going to be less 10" or less even with the current 1" riser setup :(

Sounds like I should've asked these questions before replacing the treads live I've already done

Wish I could help, but the only thing I've ever successfully built out of wood was a fire.

Rebuilt my deck last year. 2 sets of steps on the deck. My friend that helped me also designed it for me and it is slightly overbuilt (is there such thing?), very solid. We used 2X6 under the tread for added support and trimmed them to fit. Like what was said earlier.

ProDarwin wrote: So... undo/redo the work I just did? That sounds sucky.

Nah. Those are just the rules. Does anyone around here play by the rules??

I am a licensed contractor. I have to tell you the "right" way.

For the record, most carpenters and contractors can't build a proper stair.

If it's not being inspected, the bottom line is whether you are happy with it.

Let me answer your original question...

I wouldn't use 2x4's. They will leave a gap of 1 5/8" from the original ripped 5/4"x 6".

That's enough of a space to get your toe caught in it while walking up the stairs.

Buy 2x6 and rip it to fit.

"most carpenters can't build a proper stair" True dat. When I built the stairs inside my garage, my dad and I argued over them for half an hour. He is a licensed contractor and I am a plumber but have done every phase of building houses. After the half hour of yelling at each other, my wife came over and told us we were both wrong and then proceeded to tell us how it should be done. She was 100% right and we were left looking like idiots as usual.

thanks heavens for wives … and husbands that are smart enough to listen to them

how wide are the steps?

x2 on most carpenters can not build steps correctly. i've been almost killed several times on deck stairs. i build them so that one could drive a truck up them, and i build decks so that truck may be parked on it. i built my uncle's deck last year and the inspector told him it was the most over-engineered overbuilt deck he had ever seen and is easily the best deck he had ever inspected.

Good point on the stair width.

A 3rd stringer in the middle is fine if it is a 3' wide stair. If it is 6' wide, it's not enough.

People forget how much weight a deck holds. If you've got a good sized deck, it wouldn't be unusual for there to be 25 people on it during a party or barbecue.

25 people can easily weigh...umm...as much as a truck. Literally.

Turn on the music and get a little dancing going on, and they can all ride it to the ground. I've seen it happen.

I build decks about twice as strong as I build house floors.

Most common mistake I see building steps:

Carpenters who don't know how to properly calculate and divide the overall rise among the individual risers when cutting stringers. Code allows no more than (+-) 3/8" in the entire run. They typically miss this at the top and/or bottom riser (bottom riser, that is the height from the ground to the first tread, is often several inches different than the rest of the run).

Homeowners are worse. Since they don't know how to cut a stringer, they use the pre-cut ones from Home Depot. These NEVER fit (because your deck is not an even increment of 6-1/2" from the ground). They are typically cut with 6-1/2" rise, and 10" tread. But they will buy the wrong size (too short), then install them upside down to try to make them stretch. This leaves a rise of 10" and a tread of 6-1/2", which is a death trap.

ProDarwin, you are way ahead of the game!

36" wide stairs. I'll rip down some 2x6 then if I can get away with it. The nose will be stronger, and I don't much care for the overhang anyway :)

Thanks much for the help guys.

Ok, now that that's over with, another question:

WTF is this stuff on my front stairs? Is texture is sap-like. It gets softer when it gets very hot out. Nearly impossible to remove. Sticks to the bottom of shoes and is disgusting as all hell. The pictures w/ the paint stripped away are after I tried removing it with a 3000psi pressure washer.

It was only on horizontal surfaces (until I tried removing it). No trees overhang these stairs, and the gutters above them are clean.

spatter from pressure washing:

pressure washed surfaces of stairs:

I'm gonna bet it is sap, oozing out of the knots and heart wood of the lumber.