Not-A-Project S10: yup, fuel!

With the advice from my last thread, I pulled the 6 bolts holding down the bed, and jacked the bed up. I placed jack stands between the frame and the bed, and had plenty of access.

Yes, the failure was in there. Both the hose (between the pump and the pickup tube) and the rubber insulator (at the bottom of the pump) are completely rotten. Won't someone please tell me why GM didn't use fuel-proof rubber??

The good news is that the fuel level sender meters out okay.

So I know I need the short hose. No reason not to replace the sock filter while I'm in there. I'm on the fence about replacing the pump. I have no way of pressure testing in it. I'm thinking I can replace it and everything else I need for under $100, and I'd rather replace a possibly-working pump than not replace it, reassemble, and find out the pump wasn't any good... the hard way.

Thanks for all the help and advice. When this thing gets running, THEN I will move it to the "Projects" section :)

EvanR wrote: Both the hose (between the pump and the pickup tube) and the rubber insulator (at the bottom of the pump) are completely rotten. Won't someone please tell me why GM didn't use fuel-proof rubber??

They did. They didn't use ethanol proof hose. Welcome to the world of E10, brought to you by big Ag and the corn lobbyists.

/flounder

Javelin wrote:

EvanR wrote: Both the hose (between the pump and the pickup tube) and the rubber insulator (at the bottom of the pump) are completely rotten. Won't someone please tell me why GM didn't use fuel-proof rubber??

They did. They didn't use *ethanol* proof hose. Welcome to the world of E10, brought to you by big Ag and the corn lobbyists. /flounder

I want pics :)...

but yes... they used stuff that was up to par... ya know for 1984 standards... 25 years later the truck can be run as a classic/antique... so things have changed a bit... my truck was in the rural areas so it prob saw ethanol use earlier on...

glad you where able to get to it without much issue... I snapped 2 bolts when I did mine :-/...

as for the pump... @ just over $40 if you've got the $$$ I don't see why not... comes with new clamps/hoses and I think filter sock...

Had a similar rubber issue on my 97 mustang. Probably a good idea to just start checking most cars for it now.

What year are we talking about here?

Anything newer than 1990, the materials were modified to be capable of Methanol, which is close enough to Ethanol to be fine. The methanol sourced material breakdowns in the 80's came as a major surprise. (just like the exhaust breakdowns of the same time period for different reasons were a surprise)

After that, well- one would wonder of past repairs.

80's trucks...

this is what mine looked like... had similar probs to his... just further along when I got the truck

Javelin wrote:

EvanR wrote: Both the hose (between the pump and the pickup tube) and the rubber insulator (at the bottom of the pump) are completely rotten. Won't someone please tell me why GM didn't use fuel-proof rubber??

They did. They didn't use *ethanol* proof hose. Welcome to the world of E10, brought to you by big Ag and the corn lobbyists. /flounder

i don't know what year the truck in question is, but if it's from the early 80's then they did use ethanol proof hose- but it is ethanol proof hose that is now almost 30 years old.. rubber does dry out over time when exposed to stuff like gasoline, and the stuff they had back then probably isn't as good as the stuff they have now due to that thing called "progress".

when i put a new fuel pump in my T Type a few years ago, the hose that hooked the pump to the hanger looked and felt brand new despite being at least 17 years old at the time (the car sat from 1991-2004 with a blown head gasket before i got it) and probably being original to the car since it was built in the fall of 1983. this was after me running about a 50% ethanol blend in it for the 4 years that i had been driving the car and it sitting almost 6 months with 3/4 tank of straight E85 after the pump decided to die. in fact, everything inside the tank looked brand new without any signs of any corrosion at all. and, no, i don't blame the E85 for killing the fuel pump- it made noise from the day i first got the car running in the spring of '04 and finally just gave up in the spring of '08 after about 10,000 miles. i think sitting all those years with 1/2 tank of what may or may not have been premium fuel in 1991 is what eventually did the pump in.

The funny thing is that it could be some other additives in the fuel. They are required to include a number of detergents, most of which are for long chain hydrocarbon based deposits- much like rubber is. So some of the detergents could be attacking the older rubber.

In reply to alfadriver:

Talk theoreticals all you want, we sold fuel hose by the mile and at least 20 fuel pumps a day at the po-dunk NAPA I worked at. Ask anybody in the parts supplies business about how much fuel stuff they sell, especially since E10 became so widespread. We loved it! Lots of extra income!

In reply to Javelin:

Especially given that you can't service a fuel filter anymore.

Ranger50 wrote: In reply to Javelin: Especially given that you can't service a fuel filter anymore.

lol... that reminds me of a fuel issue a friend was having in her jeep grand Cherokee... I looked all around for the freaking filter... her dad ended up replacing the entire pump/carrier... took care of the issue... but no easily replaceable filter?... WHY?

Javelin wrote: In reply to alfadriver: Talk theoreticals all you want, we sold fuel hose by the mile and *at least* 20 fuel pumps a day at the po-dunk NAPA I worked at. Ask anybody in the parts supplies business about how much fuel stuff they sell, especially since E10 became so widespread. We *loved* it! Lots of extra income!

Ethanol and Methanol robust hose came in during the 90's. so if you had repeated crap problems, I'd say it's the hose or pump that was crap. I had a napa muffler that was not supposed to rust, but when I brought in the pile of rust that it turned into, they did refund my money. Could be napa.

This stuff isn't new. To blame E10 introduction ignores history.

Everyone blames everything on ethanol for deterioration of rubber fuel lines but I don't necessarily believe it. My mercedes has some original fuel lines holding 85psi after 34 years so you'd think if ethanol was the devil everyone makes it out to be my car should have fuel leaks, but alas it doesn't.

Javelin wrote: In reply to alfadriver: Talk theoreticals all you want, we sold fuel hose by the mile and *at least* 20 fuel pumps a day at the po-dunk NAPA I worked at. Ask anybody in the parts supplies business about how much fuel stuff they sell, especially since E10 became so widespread. We *loved* it! Lots of extra income!

Stuff can go bad from other causes; just because there were failures it doesn't mean it was due to ethanol.

donalson wrote: lol... that reminds me of a fuel issue a friend was having in her jeep grand Cherokee... I looked all around for the freaking filter... her dad ended up replacing the entire pump/carrier... took care of the issue... but no easily replaceable filter?... WHY?

It is something the ecofreaks at the EPA want to make you waste money on: evaporative emissions. Or in simpler terms, the gases your vehicle gives off while it isn't running. Every connection in the line is a gas leak. So, the fuel filter disappeared. Fuel return lines disappeared. This is why you see the crosslinked plastic fuel tanks and lines.

alfadriver wrote: This stuff isn't new. To blame E10 introduction ignores history.

Our competitors all sold the same amount of stuff, all from different manufacturers. To ignore the real world sales data is ignorant. Something in new gas is killing off 95%+ of the fuel systems out there.

dculberson wrote: Stuff can go bad from other causes; just because there were failures it doesn't mean it was due to ethanol.

Well that's true but something in the mix changed at the same time as wide-spread corn ethanol usage that caused a massive spike in fuel system failures. Ask Bobzilla or any of the other parts/service guys on here, they'll tell you all about it. Can't change the facts.

In reply to donalson:

Well, I'm lousy at taking pictures of black things, so I didn't. My pump-to-pickup hose wasn't as bad as yours, it just had a split along one side. But the rubber mount at the bottom was complete goo, while yours still has some semblance of it's original shape.

I can get parts to replace everything for under $50. This is a job I don't want to do twice, so I'll replace the pump while I'm in there

haha forgot about that goo... it took me forever to wash it off my hands...