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GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/15/14 12:25 p.m.

I could make a demonstration-only prototype on my own to save money.

So now I can see why having a working prototype up front is important from a marketing perspective, but from a technical perspective it still seems like a formality. I'm not doing anything fundamentally new, just slapping together OTS subsystems in a new way.

morecowbell
morecowbell New Reader
10/15/14 12:30 p.m.

I have dealt with the patent application process recently and there is another thing to seriously consider. If you file for a patent...and you are, or are not granted one, all of your "secret sauce" will be recorded and published at the end of the process.. So if it is a truly great idea EXPECT that it will be very quickly copied in China or elsewhere.

Also, expect that if you don't get a patent and get any traction in the market your product will be copied or something very similar will be available before you can do anything about it. It is incredibly expensive to chase off shore manufacturers who produce knock offs or similar products that infringe on your patent(s).

The earlier comment about "first to market" is not entirely accurate - your patent filing date is the critical detail if a future court situation occurs (in Canada or the US). NOT the patent granted date...filing date is the key. You can also file for a provisional patent that can be used kind of like a bookmark for up to a year.

Some legal advice we received from our patent attorney earlier this year: "The laws of most countries provide that it is not possible to obtain valid patent protection for an invention that has been made public prior to the filing of a patent application. There are limited provisions in Canada and the United States for filing within one year following a non-confidential disclosure of the invention where the information disclosed originated from the inventor. We recommend that you maintain the invention confidential until you have filed a patent application".

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/15/14 12:43 p.m.

That idea was like a lemonade stand compared to this, in terms of the overall investment involved in starting operations. The cost of just ghetto-rigging a prototype is probably about half of a decent set of drone photography gear which I could have immediately gone into business with.

yamaha
yamaha UltimaDork
10/15/14 12:50 p.m.

In reply to GameboyRMH:

If you are "ghetto rigging" a prototype, I think you're going to encounter the same problems.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/15/14 12:56 p.m.

I could make a nice shell for it, nobody has to know it's full of solder boogers and masking tape inside It just has to work for demonstration purposes, not be production-ready, right?

mtn
mtn UltimaDork
10/15/14 12:58 p.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: I could make a nice shell for it, nobody has to know it's full of solder boogers and masking tape inside It just has to work for demonstration purposes, not be production-ready, right?

[Potential Investor mindset] You don't believe in it enough to make it right to show me. Why should I? [/Potential Investor mindset]

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/15/14 1:08 p.m.

I'm not saying I'd make a dummy, but a fully working, showable device, although the inside would be untidy and it would need more design work to be ready for mass-production.

NOHOME
NOHOME SuperDork
10/15/14 1:21 p.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: Thought about crowdfunding but that steps right into one of the biggest potential pitfalls: Having the idea ripped clean off. At the very least I'd have to get patents first. That's probably a good place to start...I wonder what the costs are like these days? Edit: Found a page on that very topic: http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2011/01/28/the-cost-of-obtaining-patent/id=14668/ Looks like the attorney's fees alone would be around the cost of a German sportbike

In round numbers I seem to burn about 25k for any patent that I get through the system. The trick is you have to know when to fold, cause your attorney will keep you in the fight way beyond the point where you should walk away.

There is nothing that says you can not file your own patent. If you are going to move into the need for such things, you really do need to know how to do it yourself or you wont have a clue how to manage your legal team (Yeah, you have to do that).

The new rules are "First to Invent" rather than "First to File". A prototype counts as "Invented". This keeps people with good ideas but no intent to market from just killing innovation.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/15/14 1:23 p.m.

Interesting, another good reason to build a prototype...

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
10/15/14 1:25 p.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: but from a technical perspective it still seems like a formality.

You just don't seem to get it.

Oh well.

HiTempguy
HiTempguy UberDork
10/15/14 3:05 p.m.

I think OP needs to realize that at the end of the day, the prototype/startup costs are his RISK for the reward of getting rich.

Im trying to start a business... Shelling out $20k of your own money that you may NEVER see returned is a tough pill to swallow. If you think about it though, thats what business owners do everyday.

Luckily for me, my business expenses come from hoops to be jumped through... There will be money one way or another so it will not be a complete loss.

Your idea is definitely much tougher. I know a lot of business owners who startup on 1) loans and 2) borrowed family money

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/15/14 3:10 p.m.

I'm thinking I'll go ahead and build a prototype since that's apparently as good as a patent these days and it's much cheaper. I don't know what I'll do after that...worst-case scenario, I could keep it for my own use or sell it at-cost.

HiTempguy
HiTempguy UberDork
10/15/14 3:15 p.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: I'm thinking I'll go ahead and build a prototype since that's apparently as good as a patent these days and it's much cheaper. I don't know what I'll do after that...worst-case scenario, I could keep it for my own use or sell it at-cost.

Prototype and sell it off to big (insert manufacturing company here)? Would nobody bite? If it is as needed as you say, you'd think a big commercial company would snap it up. How many millions rich do you want to be? ;)

captdownshift
captdownshift GRM+ Memberand Dork
10/15/14 3:17 p.m.

In reply to HiTempguy:

This. If you have a working prototype, even if crude, and there's a market for it, then it's a commodity with a real value.

jstand
jstand Reader
10/15/14 7:10 p.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: I'm thinking I'll go ahead and build a prototype since that's apparently as good as a patent these days and it's much cheaper. I don't know what I'll do after that...worst-case scenario, I could keep it for my own use or sell it at-cost.

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but a prototype is not as good a a patent.

The U.S. Changed from "first to invent" to a "first inventor to file" system effective March 2013.

USPTO first to file

If you prototype it and show it without a non-disclosure agreement or provisional patent filed you may forfeit the right to patent it because it would then be in the public domain.

My recommendation would be to do a patent search based on key words related to the idea. Anything close should warrant closer review, both the embodiments and the claims. It is possible in some cases to expand claims or block others based on the embodiments.

If everything still looks good, then start putting together a list of design features that some one else would need to copy or find a work around to make a competing device. Those are the things you want to protect.

When making the list keep in mind there are patents that capture the external design elements ( wheels, displays, keypads, etc), others that cover the mechanism, and still others that can cover a method for performing a task. You may be able to use one or more of these to protect your idea.

Once you have the list, consider filing a broad provisional patent to establish the date, and then work you butt off to get a prototype and some investors so you can afford to convert the provisional patent before it expires.

NOHOME
NOHOME SuperDork
10/15/14 7:26 p.m.

My advice to you is to go ahead and do SOMETHING that you think will advance the cause. The honest to God truth is that you will most likely hit the wall and go up in flames. That is what happens to most people who go into business. It is a sad reality.

If you learn something from the experience, get up and try another idea, THEN you are an entrepreneur. Congratulations, welcome to the club. Very few get admitted on their first try. Or their second for that matter. And another truth...it does not really ever get easier; you have to have a passion for what you are doing.

Investors look for people who have been in the trenches before. Does not really matter if you pulled it off or not, you would not be back for another round if you did not have what it takes.Called an education. So go get one.

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