This makes no sense as if it was this clear cut you counter sue for court cost. I guess not worth the money to just pay them to go away so they got what they wanted.
This makes no sense as if it was this clear cut you counter sue for court cost. I guess not worth the money to just pay them to go away so they got what they wanted.
I'd think I'd countersue in small claims.
914Driver said:Final Update:
Both sides agreed to $3k and the shiny happy person keeps the car. Sorry Camopaint.
Shiny happy person gets a refund and the car or am I misunderstanding that?
Guy in NN VA had a shop late '90s. 80% of his work was very high performance mustangs. A customer (had been a good customer) bought a $4500 engine , mail order. Paid "Joe" to install it. Engine failed internally 500 miles later; was obviously not an installation problem. But company that built the engine is out of business. So guy sued Joe. Went to court, since it was obviously not Joe's fault. Joe's lawyer, was not on a first name basis with the judge, so Joe had to pay out for engine, and return the install cost.
Joe ended up closing the business over it.
Courtrooms in US have absolutely NOTHING to do with justice. So "as is" is worth , well, not nothing, but, all the legal advise means nothing, depending on the judge and the lawyers involved.
Have many of these stories.
In reply to jmabarone :
Think I saw 3000 of 4500, and keeps the car.
A industrial diesel shop I know; The owner (usually the only employee as well) has been sued several times. Even the times he has won, it cost him more in time and money than he had in the job. He now keeps $10K in banded cash in a save by his desk. Said the next person that comes in an starts talking "lawsuit", he plant to hand it to them, and ask if it's enough for them to just go away!!!
He is NOT joking.
I'm a mechanic. I understand that some mechanics take advantage of people and that's why we're all crooks.
If there's any lawyers out there reading this. Please, do what you can to bury guys like this. They make all of you look like scumbags.
ShawnG said:I'm a mechanic. I understand that some mechanics take advantage of people and that's why we're all crooks.
If there's any lawyers out there reading this. Please, do what you can to bury guys like this. They make all of you look like scumbags.
berkeleying believe it, most of us would absolutely love to.
I remember several years ago arguing with Curmudgeon (RIP) on here about how not all of us were terrible human beings. Then it hit me, that as a dealership service advisor, he should understand what an unethical minority can do for the reputation of the rest of a group of people. But I digress.
To correct what appear to be some widespread misunderstandings:
-Unless there's a specific statute that allows you to sue someone for attorney fees, you don't get your attorney fees paid when you file a lawsuit. Same if you have t to defend a bogus one. There are areas where you are allowed to ask that your attorney fees be paid, and they tend to be situations where a consumer is suing a company for "unfair, deceptive, or abusive practices". As a side note, America is one of the only places where the rule is that the prevailing party doesn't get attorney fees.
-You don't get attorney fees in small claims court. The whole idea is that you don't have to have an attorney. Depending on the state, small claims is generally a faster process with relaxed evidentiary rules, meaning you don't need a lawyer.
-I'm not going to argue against anyone that the legal system has deep-seated problems or that the profession doesn't have a lot of shady types, but holy E36 M3 some of y'all paint with a broad brush.
nocones said:Or is this just such a low likelihood random chance that you get scummy scammy buyer?
Yeah, think of how many times you've sold a car. Just in this thread the participants in this discussion have each sold at least five or ten over the course of the time they've been a gearhead. It's the nature of the hobby.
Now, how many times have any of you been sued, or threatened with a lawsuit? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it doesn't happen often. Ian drew short straw here. And it really does suck, but it's seriously rare. Part of that is that people realize they would have to hire a lawyer, and they aren't interested in putting that money out there, especially because most states there is no warranty on a used car, expressed or implied.
So, the buyers lawyer friend is just out drumming up work for himself.
Just to make you feel better, I just lost $15k in legal fees. You see if a teenage girl claims anything against a boy it is investigated, title 9 B.S. We were scared to death for this to cause issues to our sons future. He is a 4.0 student on a path for a bright future. So we lawyered up, made it almost to court when the judge looked over the case and said I don't want to see this E36 M3 in my courtroom. It was absolutely ridiculous and full of giant holes, but once you are sued by the STATE OF MIGHIGAN you are in for the long haul.
The girl in question is a known troublemaker who brought a hot headed boyfriend from another school to a dance, they caused trouble. The school and resource officer handled it poorly and killed a year of my life.
Let your children know that if they are ever asked to tell their side of a story or specifically write it down to refuse until a parent is present. Boys, watch out for girls, what they say is believed no matter what. Girls be careful what you say and be sure what you say is true.
This tactic is part of some rules that they must follow, it has nothing to do with looking out for our children. Schools routinely get sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars and losing, they now sacrifice the families to protect their asses.
Just to be clear in my case the school was on my side as were all the teacher and all but one parent. They did not expect this to happen.
In reply to psteav (Forum Supporter) :
Thanks for the comment.
Sorry if it came across that way, I wasn't trying to say all lawyers are predatory jerks. I just finished a real-estate issue last year involving a few of them and everything was very professional. It's expensive because it's worth it.
Correct me if I'm wrong but even if you "win" in small claims court, all that happens is you have a legal record saying that person X owes you X amount. They don't provide any sort of guarantee that you're actually going to get anything.
Seems like a giant waste of time if that's true.
In reply to akylekoz :
True words.
I have friends who have lost their jobs because they didn't understand this, and innocent friends who have gone to jail because of it.
03Panther said:I friend was telling me (I have no clue , but the guy is usually accurate) that the us is only place that each party pays their own court costs. In Ireland (he is from) whoever looses pays. I think lawyers fees as well. Way less nuisance filing.
That is true, but you can also show up with no Lawyer and say "here is the as/is bill of sale". Some people are not comfortable with doing that and it's easier to make it go away by writing a check.
I'll spend more money proving the point, but that is me. I would also have no issues reporting the guy, but some people do not like any drama.
In reply to ShawnG :
Nah, you cam across as you intended.
As for whether suing is worth it or not, it depends. Depends on the state (each state is different in what collection methods are allowed for a judgment), depends on how much you're owed, depends on whether the person has anything you can go after, etc. And I have no idea what Canada is like. American law is descended for the most part from English common law, as is Canada, but Canada also has the French civil law (descended from the ancient Roman courts) influence, and then each country has had a couple of hundred years to develop their own foibles.
I can say that in Missouri, where I am, getting a judgment against someone gives you the power to put a lien on their real estate and garnish their wages, which are two of the most powerful collection methods in existence. So if they're working or own real estate, it's often worth it to seek a judgment. A judgment also can give you the power to execute on business property (i.e., send the sheriff in to seize stuff and sell it until the judgment is satisfied), and you had best believe that gets the attention of any company who doesn' t want to pay a judgment. I remember during the late '00s recession reading about a guy in Florida who was wrongfully foreclosed on and managed to get a judgment against Bank of America. They wouldn't pay him. So his lawyer sent the sheriff into the local BofA branch and just started pointing at computers and furniture until someone handed him a check.
Steve_Jones said:03Panther said:I friend was telling me (I have no clue , but the guy is usually accurate) that the us is only place that each party pays their own court costs. In Ireland (he is from) whoever looses pays. I think lawyers fees as well. Way less nuisance filing.
That is true, but you can also show up with no Lawyer and say "here is the as/is bill of sale". Some people are not comfortable with doing that and it's easier to make it go away by writing a check.
I'll spend more money proving the point, but that is me. I would also have no issues reporting the guy, but some people do not like any drama.
All true words.
I'm that guy as well.
But so we're the other guys in my subsequent posts. They lost anyway, although not at fault.
Just because as-is is clear to you and me, US courtrooms have nothing in common with justice.
I believe it's called the "legal system" not the "justice system"
In reply to ShawnG :
Kinda missing the point, but I guess that's funny, since I'm sure you are well aware of it. 
In reply to 03Panther :
If you don't laugh, you'll cry.
You don't want to be sideways with the department of just us.
Reporting the opposing attorney to the Bar Association was discussed.
If that were to happen, how would the process go? Does the Bar have broad regulatory power over the profession, including suspension but short of revocation of the right to practice, as with medical professionals and their respective boards?
I know that disbarment is a thing, but what about a lawyer who isn't so unethical as to lose the right to practice, but still might deserve some sort of sanction?
A lawyer in Vancouver was just suspended for using that "free man of the land" crap to be a nuisance to a neighbor in her building.
So this guy gets $3000 for threats and harassment and no judge gets to hear it? Sounds like they got exactly what they wanted. That's why I tell people to go pound sand. And if I need to go to court I go and speak for myself. This is also why I'm considering spending $60 k to make law my final career. This is exactly the kind of case I would take for free.
OHSCrifle said:You don't want to be sideways with the department of just us.
Now that was bad... so very well done!!! My complements.
ShawnG said:In reply to 03Panther :
If you don't laugh, you'll cry.
lots a both, these days!
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