Obama and the younger generation

Salanis wrote:

Jensenman wrote: As far as our 'world image', the last 'nice guy image' Prez we had was Clinton. The 'nice guy image' Prez before that was Carter. Look where those two got us. They couldn't do shi+ right overseas. Gimme another Reagan any day.

So, we need to elect a Republican president to get our foreign policy back on track?

In case you haven't done Dale Carnegie leadership training, one of the basic tenets is: if you have to choose between being respected or liked, respected is always better in a leader.

We need a President with some nards. Doesn't matter if (s)he's Dem, Repub, Indie, white, black, red, yellow, whatever. Since the Prez is only a figurehead, it needs to be a figurehead that will scare the shi+ out of those who might try to do us harm.

Had the ability to scare miscreants: FDR (D), Eisenhower (R), JFK (D) (although he was well on his way to screwing it up, see Bay of Pigs) LBJ (D) Reagan (R), Bush 1 (R).

Nixon and Bush 2 (R) both had it at one point and then lost it, Nixon with his tapes and Bush 2 with his unfortunate inability to stick to his guns when he says something. Bush 1 lost it during the campaign for a second term. I think that's because he was just plain tired of the Presidency and Vice Presidency, he just no longer had his heart in it.

Never had it: Truman (IIRC, he was R), Carter (D), Ford (R), Clinton (D).

doitover wrote: As for Russia, (Reagan) happened to be the president that was in at the end of the US outspending them into the ground. Luck not skill.

Surely you don't believe that.

DILYSI Dave wrote:

doitover wrote: As for Russia, (Reagan) happened to be the president that was in at the end of the US outspending them into the ground. Luck not skill.

Surely you don't believe that.

Of course he does.

Actually, it wasn't military spending that started the decline and fall of the USSR, it was Pizza Hut, McDonalds' , Levi's, Coca Cola, Pepsi and a whole lot of other US brand names. Reagan started the BIG crack in the Iron Curtain when he called on Gorby to bring down the Berlin Wall.

DILYSI Dave wrote: Surely you don't believe that.

I love how people who spend the most time decrying communism and saying how it's a system that inevitably collapses under its own weight credit Reagan with "defeating" the Soviets. Guess what, the USSR imploded. It was bound to happen, getting into a spending war with the U.S. helped speed that process.

Salanis wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: Surely you don't believe that.

I love how people who spend the most time decrying communism and saying how it's a system that inevitably collapses under its own weight credit Reagan with "defeating" the Soviets. Guess what, the USSR imploded. It was bound to happen, getting into a spending war with the U.S. helped speed that process.

Good point.

However, Reagan acknowledged and exploited the inherent weakness of communism. His predecessors (with the exception of Carter) laid the foundation, but he took the opportunity to finish the job.

Carter couldn't make the grade. Do you think a Mondale presidency would have accomplished the same as Reagan's?

BTW, the question comes from one who sadly admits he voted for Carter (in '76) and was also skeptical of Reagan's potential.

Reaganite's have something "solid" to uphold; not so much for those who defend Carter. And what, exactly, is Mondale's legacy?

I have rather failed to understand how Carter has attained the status of a kind of white, sane, Jesse Jackson. He's got political power far beyond his real authority or standing. He was a crappy, 1-term president 30 years ago, yet somehow, people listen to him and care what he thinks - quite deeply, in fact.

oldsaw wrote: However, Reagan acknowledged and exploited the inherent weakness of communism. His predecessors (with the exception of Carter) laid the foundation, but he took the opportunity to finish the job. Carter couldn't make the grade. Do you think a Mondale presidency would have accomplished the same as Reagan's?

Dunno, that's very hypothetical. To the best of my understanding all the documents that became public after the Soviet Union collapsed were of the verdict that, if it hadn't have happened then, it wouldn't have taken more than another 5-10 years.

As I understand, Reagan's biggest accomplishment was normalizing relations with the Soviets. He got the cold war to back down just a bit. Arguably that might have sped their demise, since it's a lot easier to be united when you have a strong enemy to unite against.

Actually, that strikes me as more of evidence in favor of a presidential candidate who is a good communicator and able to normalize relations with adversaries.

As for Carter... my grandfather hates him. He blames Carter for being paramount in him losing his congressional seat (I need to learn more of the details on this) and thinks he was a horrible president. However, he says that Carter was incredibly intelligent, and had great ideas, he just knew jack E36 M3 about how politics gets done, and managed to piss off and alienate congress.

That's very interesting, Salanis. Your grandfather certainly has much more up close knowledge of this than virtually everyone here, and I respect what he had to say. I, too, think Carter was (is) a very bright man. He is probably also a nice guy, and I'm sure he builds a good house. I was in high school during most of his presidency, so I wasn't really paying as much attention to things political, and I didn't have the experience to draw conclusions like I can today and sift the programming BS from the little glimmers of truth. We used to watch 60 Minutes then and we all thought it was great how those guys would just get in people’s faces. We were missing the bigger picture.

Reagan helped push the USSR down the tubes a bit faster. He certainly didn't do it all by himself, but he came to the job with an attitude of "we can do it" instead of the attitudes of the previous Presidents of "don't win, we'll rock the boat." It was a 50 year war. Probably more like 90 years. I had a friend that was a cold warrior in the 60's. It was not cold. Now, post cold war, we've adopted the communistic government system and they've adopted the capitalistic economic system. We are merging to a one world government run by unelected dictator bureaucrats. The bureaucrats are in turn controlled by the extremely wealthy, like the money men of the Democratic Party. Mr. Corvair's observations of BHO having sold out already was very interesting. Nothing will change either way. As I've previously said, the difference between the two parties is whether you want to be on the road to socialism at 70MPH or 120MPH. Changing the road is not a choice.

Salanis wrote: As for Carter... my grandfather hates him. He blames Carter for being paramount in him losing his congressional seat (I need to learn more of the details on this) and thinks he was a horrible president. However, he says that Carter was incredibly intelligent, and had great ideas, he just knew jack E36 M3 about how politics gets done, and managed to piss off and alienate congress.

the simpsons proved many years ago that smart people can't lead.

Note to: J-man:

Truman was a Democrat; he was Roosevelt's VP when FDR died. Had a REAL STEEP learning curve during the spring and summer of '45...among other things FDR knew about the atomic bomb and didn't share the info with his VP.

mel_horn wrote: Note to: J-man: Truman was a Democrat; he was Roosevelt's VP when FDR died. Had a REAL STEEP learning curve during the spring and summer of '45...among other things FDR knew about the atomic bomb and didn't share the info with his VP.

Yeah, I was working from memory which isn't always a good idea for me.

Regardless, Truman didn't do a very good job. I'd have to lump him in with Ford as far as not being able to grow into the Presidency. OTOH, LBJ jumped in with both feet when JFK was assassinated and did a pretty damn good job.

About Carter: I have always thought he was a decent and intelligent man who worried more about being liked than about being a leader, which is what made him such a poor President. Of course, in the last year or two he seems to not care who he craps on. Maybe he's learned something.

Dr. Hess wrote: Reagan helped push the USSR down the tubes a bit faster. He certainly didn't do it all by himself, but he came to the job with an attitude of "we can do it" instead of the attitudes of the previous Presidents of "don't win, we'll rock the boat." It was a 50 year war. Probably more like 90 years. I had a friend that was a cold warrior in the 60's. It was not cold.

Some historians think that WWI just ended. (We're not sure who won...) Some even think that it BEGAN in 1910(?) when Japan invaded Korea. Thus, the good Dr's 90-year war.

In between what we know as "World War I "and "World War II" we had a period of tension where the defeated (mainly Germany) were figuring out how to get even. Even as "WWII" was winding down, the Soviets were widely percieved as the real enemy. Supposedly General Patton wanted to hook up with what was left of the Wehrmacht and go after Russia and push them back!

This "History Channel Minute" has been brought to you by Berkeley!

Dr. Hess wrote: We are merging to a one world government run by unelected dictator bureaucrats. The bureaucrats are in turn controlled by the extremely wealthy, like the money men of the Republican Party.

fixed that for you

neon4891 wrote:

Dr. Hess wrote: We are merging to a one world government run by unelected dictator bureaucrats. The bureaucrats are in turn controlled by the extremely wealthy, like the money men of the Republican Party.

fixed that for you

Let's not forget SuperDemocrat George Soros (wrecked the Bank of England).

Soros is little more than a "boogey man" that the republicans like to throw out there to try to scare people

It takes big money to do politics these days. Doesn't matter what side of the aisle you're sitting on. All the big money people keeping a close watch on legislation are hedging their bets and getting in good with both parties.

Look at how Obama has been fund raising. A sizeable portion of his contributions have been small donations from across the board, not just a select few giving the max amount allowed. You don't really find this on the other side of the isle.

Jensenman wrote: OTOH, LBJ jumped in with both feet when JFK was assassinated and did a pretty damn good job.

puts on conspericy hatpossibly 'cause he could have had some thing to do with it?

now that conspiricy time is over, IMHO, what good, out side of civil liberties, did he do, and even then he simply caved to political pressure

John Brown said:Wow, my head hurts.... How about them Bucs!

J-E-T-S J-E-T-S

neon4891 wrote: Soros is little more than a "boogey man" that the republicans like to throw out there to try to scare people

Gee, that sounds a lot like how Dick Cheney is the libs' boogeyman.

neon4891 wrote:

Jensenman wrote: OTOH, LBJ jumped in with both feet when JFK was assassinated and did a pretty damn good job.

*puts on conspericy hat*possibly 'cause he could have had some thing to do with it? now that conspiricy time is over, IMHO, what good, out side of civil liberties, did he do, and even then he simply caved to political pressure

Hoo boy. Come back and talk to me about this after you take the tinfoil hat off.

Doitover: Are you Skappes?

(Still trying to figure out stuff since the big switch)

Jensenman (or anyone, for that matter):

Please give me a link to something credible on the "Hate Whitey" stuff. I can't find anything. I think it's crap, but I'd like to read something, if you've got it.

SVreX wrote: Jensenman (or anyone, for that matter): Please give me a link to something credible on the "Hate Whitey" stuff. I can't find anything. I think it's crap, but I'd like to read something, if you've got it.

There's several links around, here's one: http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2008/01/obama-feels-the.html yeah, it's a conservative media link, but it speaks the verifiable truth.

It seems that Rev. Wright bestowed an award of his creation on Louis Farrakhan, best known as the Nation of Islam leader who vilifies whites as being the root of all problems facing blacks in America. Farrakhan also hates Jews (sounds like a Deep South redneck, doesn't he?) and has in the past said Hitler was a great man. Wright tried to backpedal, saying it was for F's work with the unemployed but the award is a 'lifetime achievement award'. For a few Farrakhan quotes, go here:

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/l/louis_farrakhan.html

Not to mention Farrakhan was a protege of Malcolm X, of 'By Any Means Neccessary' fame.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/05/10/60minutes/main194051.shtml

Wright has also stated more than once that 9/11 was payback for the evils that America has loosed on the world; he specifically mentioned slavery in the infamous Fox News/YouTube broadcast of that particular sermon. Of course, slavery in America was perpetrated by the whites. Yeah, that's a fact. So he blames 9/11 on white America. If you have the time, here's his YouTube page. http://youtube.com/results?search_query=jeremiah+wright+9+11&search_type=&aq=0&oq=jeremiah+wright+9%2F11 Yeah, there's a bunch of different stuff there, pay close attention to the 9/11 based stuff, even the 'Fox Lies!' links. All kinds of interesting editing.

I guess that doesn't mean Obama follows that particular line of thought. Or does he? http://youtube.com/results?search_query=barack+obama+typical+white+person&search_type=&aq=f

He says his grandmother was a 'typical white person'. Whaaa? 'Sup with that? What's a 'typical white person'? For that matter, what's a 'typical black (or plug in your least favorite ethnic group) person'?

I can hear skappes circling, getting ready to holler 'J-man is a racist'. Nope, sorry, won't stick. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'd like to see Colin Powell or Condi Rice run for Prez. I think either of them would do well. Of course, they are both too smart to do that to themselves.

I can easily think of what a "typical white person" is. Just as I can think of what a "typical x person" is, a typical dog owner is, a typical muscle car is, etc.. Was it a stupid thing to say? Of course it was. Generalizing and stereotyping never looks good, regardless of the field. He is getting flack for it, just as any politician would get flack for saying the same thing about any other group.