Obama Orders Chevy & Dodge out of NASCAR

ClemSparks wrote: Am I a mouthbreathing, redneck hilbilly? Clem

Yep. Yer from Missourah, aintcha?

They're not saying that the racing isn't good, they're saying that there's no technology benefit which is absolutely 100% true.

I used to work for Daytona Speedway and attended 2 500's and 2 night races as a worker as well as another 2 500's as a spectator and haven't watched NASCAR in a good 5 years. After discovering road racing, rally racing in the US, autocross, and track days I just couldn't be bothered.

P71 wrote: They're not saying that the *racing* isn't good, they're saying that there's no *technology benefit* which is absolutely 100% true. I used to work for Daytona Speedway and attended 2 500's and 2 night races as a worker as well as another 2 500's as a spectator and haven't watched NASCAR in a good 5 years. After discovering road racing, rally racing in the US, autocross, and track days I just couldn't be bothered.

My rant was more targeted at the "nascar is crap" or analogous to "professional" wrestling posts. So, take it for what it's worth ;)

I watch nascar when I'm not doing something else because I'm interested in racing. Heck, I'd have a monster truck rally on the TV if that's all that was on (even though I think it's silly). I also follow one particular driver because he is a personal friend. But really, folks who say nascar is ridiculous pretty much discredit themselves imediately in my eyes. It's like going to a car show and making snide remarks about a car you don't like. You just don't do that, you know?

If you're into autocross and not nascar, think about how many times you've had to defend against the popular "driving between cones." If you're into drag racing, you've got to defend against the "stomp and go straight" stuff. If you're into circle track racing you "only turn left." Though every one of those forms of motorsport is perfectly legitimate. It takes all types.

Clem

I with you,Clem.

Financial success of a motorsports industry seems like a pretty good thing to me, even if I am not a huge fan.

My local autocross efforts have EVERYTHING to do with the success (or failure) of my local dragstrip. When the populace sees no benefits to racing, they lump EVERYONE into the street racer category, and start legislating everything related to driving fast, on a track or otherwise.

And while it may or may not be true that there's no technology benefit from NASCAR, there is CERTAINLY an indisputable exposure and name recognition benefit. That's basic marketing- a good thing.

I want to say that the april fools joke was pretty obvious as just that.

To argue that NASCAR, or any other form of sanctioned racing needs to somehow justify its existence by some contribution to technology is a bit silly, IMO. Folks have been racing (competing) for as long as they've been able to. On foot, horse, boat (powered or otherwise), motorcycles, cars, you name it. The truth is that sometimes this competition DOES lead to technological advances. It's poor logic to say that it MUST.

And frankly, I think many of the racing safetly advances in the past several decades can be attributed primarily to NASCAR. Note, I put a lot of "outs" in that previous statement/sentence. However, off the top of my head, I can cite the wall barriers. And everyone knows that "nascar bars" are a commonly used term in cage building of most forms of auto racing. I mean...last I knew, the term "Nascar Bars" was used in quotes in the SCCA GCR.

Clem

joey48442 wrote: Sorry Clem, I hate watching sports on TV (or in person) too. Joey

And you also refrained from posting something to the tune of "NASCAR is Crap!"

I don't like watching any sort of athletic ball sport unless there are friends and beer present and/or women on sand in bikinis.

Just sayin'

Clem

Hans device comes to mind as well

Not to turn "political", but...

http://mediamatters.org/items/200904020008

In her April 1 column, Ann Coulter fell for a fake April Fools' Day article by Car and Driver magazine that claimed that President Obama has ordered General Motors and Chrysler to cease their participation in NASCAR because it is an "unnecessary expenditure." Coulter wrote, "If Obama can tell GM and Chrysler that their participation in NASCAR is an 'unnecessary expenditure,' isn't having public schools force students to follow Muslim rituals, recite Islamic prayers and plan 'jihads' also an 'unnecessary expenditure'?" Car and Driver originally posted an April 1 story online -- since removed -- with the headline, "Obama Orders Chevrolet and Dodge Out Of NASCAR," and the text, "With their racing budgets deemed 'unnecessary expenditures,' GM and Chrysler are ordered to cease racing operations at the end of the season." However, Car and Driver later clarified that the story was an April Fools' Day joke, then removed the story from its website.

Follow the link to the rest.

Ahahaha!

Man, she is a piece of work. Ignorant and gullible. People actually listen to her?

Where does she get the school stuff from? I'll have to wade into the article and see if she cites a reference for it.

I can see perhaps a teacher trying to teach children both sides of the Middle East issue, so perhaps some of those situations may have been brought up and even exemplified.

Given how hard it is, to get many children to pay attention in schools, anything the teacher's can do within reason to keep them interested is a good thing in my book. Especially when the teacher's actions result in a better understanding of a complex issue that is directly impacting a child's life. Much like discussing abortion, sexual orientation, government parties, etc.

Back to the NASCAR discussion. I enjoy watching it, much like I enjoy watching F1. To me neither is really about racing and more about the spectacle. Not to say that there aren't real racers and people working really hard to win races/championships, but it seems like the sanctioning bodies are using the racing as a secondary story for over-produced and marketed "drama" To be honest, if there was a way to watch those racing series (or any sports for that matter) without the announcer droning on and on about various subjects, I'd probably enjoy it all quite a bit more as I could listen to the cars and have to actually pay attention.

I watched last weekend's race at my buddy's house and he has that service where you can listen to the team we were interested in and that takes it to a new and interesting level. Even though they weren't running up front (oops, pit stop drama!) we still got to hear what was going on for the team.

I don't enjoy watching races...I like working them. Most of what the announcers say is dumbed down so that viewers/fans/listeners feel like they know what's going on. That said, I like watching races on TV way more than I like shopping, mowing, or watching almost ANYTHING else that might be on the tube.

Clem

ClemSparks wrote: I want to say that the april fools joke was pretty obvious as just that. To argue that NASCAR, or any other form of sanctioned racing needs to somehow justify its existence by some contribution to technology is a bit silly,.......The truth is that sometimes this competition DOES lead to technological advances. It's poor logic to say that it MUST. Clem

Clem, I hope I havent offended you too much, and I never related Nascar to Hillbilly anything...

the point I was making is that if GM needs a handout, that handout shouldnt go into funding an endevour that bears no tangible fruit...like the technology that other companies gain from smaller venue racing (read what subie and audi get from WRC Nissan or Honda from F1).. Saying your nascar team is used for "marketing" is like calling a drunken frat party a "recruiting exercise". If Detroit (minus the blue oval fellas) werent in trouble and needing tax money to stay alive, I wouldnt care if their team plated every panel in gold and used a million dollars of Cryptonite as fuel per race. Just dont take gov't money (yours and mine) and bleed it all over the place for nothing when you do it.

Yeah...I wasn't really posting about the actual topic (because it was a hoax) or it's real life political implications. Mostly just calling out folks for putting down a segment of a sport that we, as members of a "motorsports" community love. [edit: I looked back at your post 4cylfury, and it's definitely not one that would've touched me off...]

My heart may be on my sleeve, but my skin's not that thin yet (in other words, no offense taken)

Now...drunken frat parties are probably the best marketing tool they (drunken fraternaties) have. And I don't imagine the analogy is lost on the detroit boys.

Clem

I praise NASCAR for its ability to thrust motorsports into the headlines. I know quite a few people that I have converted to sportscar/autoX just because they were first introduced to motorsports through NASCAR and eventually "saw the light" about other motorsports. I don't like the fact that NASCAR is the premier motorsport venue in our country, I would much rather have it be ALMS or Grand-Am, but we get what we can get until we convert all the "hillbillies" over to the real deal.

My forum nickname can now be "That Guy That Fell For the April Fools Joke."

Carry on hahaha

this makes me wonder how much do the manufacturers them selfs put into NASCAR. Yes there is the R&D aspect of it, but how much comes down to the teams?

ClemSparks wrote: Now...I'm going to call you all out. Who watches footbal, or basketball, or any of that other stuff? If you can get into athletic sports to the level that you wear a jersey, fill out a bracket, or set your DVR...you would be a total hypocrite to bash NASCAR.

Called out.

Mofo watches:

Football - check - any football game, any time

Basketball - check - playoffs / Final Four only

Baseball - nope - hate it

Golf - check - if I are drinking

Hockey - check - playoffs or MSU hockey

Auto Racing:

IF NASCAR is being aired at the same time F1 I will watch NASCAR every time. If WOO is on I would rather watch WOO.

neon4891 wrote: this makes me wonder how much do the manufacturers them selfs put into NASCAR. Yes there is the R&D aspect of it, but how much comes down to the teams?

Some engineering for the teams but the biggest budget is commercial airtime. GM is running fewer corporate ads on venues like the Superbowl so they can afford the title ads of the other events.

I'm not saying nascar is not racing. I'll watch it.

However, it is more akin to "sports entertainment" than proper racing.

The daytona 500 is more like "wrestlemania" than it is sebring or WRC or DTM or SCCA or ....

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/2007-04-25-2810581925_x.htm said: "I guess NASCAR thinks 'Hey, wrestling worked, and it was for the most part staged, so I guess it's going to work in racing, too,'" he said. "I can't understand how long the fans are going to let NASCAR treat them like they're stupid before the fans finally turn on NASCAR.

preach Tony Stewart.. Preach.

I tuned NASCAR out when it seemed to me it was more about "Boogity, Boogity, Boogity!!!!!" and less about the racing.

While there is a part of racing that furthers technological developement, all forms of racing is little more than entertainment in one form or another... and allows the viewer (either in person or on TV) to escape from their lives for a few hours.

One could argue that in times like these, NASCAR is needed now more than ever...

(I have no TV, so I watch no racing or sports at all...

John Brown wrote: IF NASCAR is being aired at the same time F1 I will watch NASCAR every time. If WOO is on I would rather watch WOO.

Don't go see the Woo in person, you'll never be able to watch it again. It's the 21st century, if you're not going to put a starter in the car please put in a clutch pedal. Watching 30 cars get push started every time there is a caution is painful. A 10 lap heat took 45 minutes, and they were turning 25 second laps. The 30 lap feature was close to 2 hours.

And then they start running out of fuel because they didn't plan for all the caution laps...

I know, right?

Still though, World of Outlaws is CRAZY cool!

Clem

Any racing that can do 1/2 mile in 13 seconds is crazy cool. And any driver who can do so as a teenager is a good driver (re: Sarah Fisher).

As with football and baseball, there are often breaks in the action. I'd take WoO over soccer any day. Either sprints or late models. And NASCAR is the big leagues to these types of racing.

local sprint cars are much more exciting then WoO. Skagit Speedway up here has killer races all the time plus "Outlaw Hornets" ($500 POS 4-Cyl cars crashing all over the place).