Occupy.... the Simthsonian?

Most Americans I know will not lower themselves to any job they see as blue collar or labor. We've had a lot of retireing at Transit and have been giving a number of tests from cleaners to bus operators up to mechanics and subway signal maintainers. These a jobs that while not ideal, pay between $19 and $35 per hour, have good fairly priced benefits, and a pension at age 55. But we have trouble filling these jobs because you have to work nights, weekends and holidays, and may have to do some heavy lifting. Between myself, my sister and brother I know a number of un or underemployed people who refuse to take a test for one of these jobs because it is below someone of their education (some of them have confused a year of community college with a degree from Harvard).

Like most of these tests we will hire a hand full of white people, some African Americans that want to move out of the projects and put their kids in good schools, and a larger number of People who just came to this country and can't believe these jobs are open to them. Meanwhile I will go to a family party next year and hear about how all these foriegners came in and take the money from them and own all the businesses and houses. What they refuse to understand is that a lot of the time the Indians that bought the local deli are four bus drivers who worked their asses off to save up to buy it while they sat on their mother's couches trying to find someone who needed some grammar corrected.

Yes/no. At some point, if you've got openings you can't fill, you have to ask if the price is right. For every douchbag with a year of community college who thinks he's a 6 figure genius, there is some company out there saying "That's what the job pays, take it or leave it."

Wally wrote: Most Americans I know will not lower themselves to any job they see as blue collar or labor.

This is sad but true. It is also in my opinion a big part of the reason illegal immigration has been and will continue to be a problem. People won't go do hard labor in the fields or in construction.

Wally wrote: Most Americans I know will not lower themselves to any job they see as blue collar or labor. We've had a lot of retireing at Transit and have been giving a number of tests from cleaners to bus operators up to mechanics and subway signal maintainers. These a jobs that while not ideal, pay between $19 and $35 per hour, have good fairly priced benefits, and a pension at age 55. But we have trouble filling these jobs because you have to work nights, weekends and holidays, and may have to do some heavy lifting. Between myself, my sister and brother I know a number of un or underemployed people who refuse to take a test for one of these jobs because it is below someone of their education (some of them have confused a year of community college with a degree from Harvard). Like most of these tests we will hire a hand full of white people, some African Americans that want to move out of the projects and put their kids in good schools, and a larger number of People who just came to this country and can't believe these jobs are open to them. Meanwhile I will go to a family party next year and hear about how all these foriegners came in and take the money from them and own all the businesses and houses. What they refuse to understand is that a lot of the time the Indians that bought the local deli are four bus drivers who worked their asses off to save up to buy it while they sat on their mother's couches trying to find someone who needed some grammar corrected.

I personally never understood this mentality. At one point in my life I was a homeless bum but I still managed to work every day doing some of the most "low class" jobs like cleaning bloated dog carcasses out of sewers to unclog them or laying netting and sod on steep hills in the blistering sun. With out doing that I never would have become the owner of two businesses.

If you aren't willing to the lowest of jobs you dont deserve the best of jobs.

As for the Siemens bit above I find that a little interesting since it's in contrast to what my buddy is experiencing there now.

The division he is in isn't hiring any new developers locally (here in PA) and aren't replacing anybody that leaves. The ones left behind are now bug checking code that was developed for them in India. And not well developed at that. But that's where all their new coding is happening.

93EXCivic wrote:

Wally wrote: Most Americans I know will not lower themselves to any job they see as blue collar or labor.

This is sad but true. It is also in my opinion a big part of the reason illegal immigration has been and will continue to be a problem. People won't go do hard labor in the fields or in construction.

They would if the other alternative was to starve. I know a couple of worthless people like that myself. Makes me a firm believer in doing away with long term unemployment.

Wally, you're a genius.

Someone please put this man in charge.

Shawn

Rob_Mopar wrote: As for the Siemens bit above I find that a little interesting since it's in contrast to what my buddy is experiencing there now. The division he is in isn't hiring any new developers locally (here in PA) and aren't replacing anybody that leaves. The ones left behind are now bug checking code that was developed for them in India. And not well developed at that. But that's where all their new coding is happening.

So how long would it take us to train all those unemployed real estate salesmen and construction workers to be inexperienced programmers in order to fix the code that the inexperienced programmers in India wrote, considering the fact that we are going to take away their long term unemployment and not spend any money to train them.

I agree with all of these statements.

tuna55 wrote: The Middle Class (US) do all of the heavy lifting for both sides.

Wally wrote: Most Americans I know will not lower themselves to any job they see as blue collar or labor.

ThePhranc wrote: If you aren't willing to the lowest of jobs you dont deserve the best of jobs.

I would love to see people being trained to do the jobs we need done in this country.

Personally, I like how Germany educates and trains it's workers. This has proven to be very effective. The age of pushing all our kids into college and away from skilled trades should end.

~~~~

Fletch1 wrote: http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/local/occupy-boston-protesters-spit-on-coast-guard-member-20111013 http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/10/11/occupy-l-a-speaker-violence-will-be-necessary-to-achieve-our-goals/

kazoospec wrote: Well, at least now there's a plan they can get behind: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/14/rep-jesse-jackson-calls-on-government-to-hire-all-unemployed-americans-for/

Guys, Come on now. We all know Fox news has an ax to grind. They're as biased as DailyKos and Huffington Post. I think we can all agree that posting these links to biased websites really isn't effective.

Another topic so I'm starting another post...

Check out these articles please.

U.S. Chamber praises Obama's call for infrastructure spending

The Chamber, meanwhile, is casting such investment in similar terms, insisting it's critical not just in terms of job creation, but also for our global competitiveness and "for our long-term economic prosperity." Having the nation's most powerful business group endorse infrastructure investment in such terms should seriously undercut the case of those who want to tar all such spending as a drag on our economy.

Infrastructure Spending Is Crucial For Jobs and Growth

Look at the numbers; they show how crucial infrastructure spending is to the level of growth in GDP. Between 1950 and 1979 the year to year growth in public investment in infrastructure amounted to a 4% annualized growth rate. This 4% was just a tad under the 4.1% growth rate for the nation’s entire GDP. So, you can clearly see how important infrastructure spending was to our economy. Now, compare 1950-1979 to 1980 to 2007. In the later period the year to year growth in public investment in infrastructure was a mere 2.3%– almost down to half the rate in the earlier period. The GDP numbers for 1980-2007? Only 2.9% growth in GDP.

After reading this...do you guys think it would be a good idea to pay, and train, the unemployed to repair and rebuild the U.S. infrastructure? It will have to be done eventually. Why not now? What do you guys think?

As long as I don't have to pay for the training through my taxes It's a great idea.

OTJT works just fine.

Speaking as one of the many unemployed people in the field of Architecture, there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people already trained and experienced in the appropriate fields that would absolutely love to get to work rebuilding our country before it falls apart instead of after. The hardest hit job market over the last several years has been architecture/building/construction and the country should be embarassed that we haven't put these people to work on projects we need or our future instead of giving handouts to bankers so they don't have to cut their bonuses.

Xceler8x wrote: Personally, I like how Germany educates and trains it's workers. This has proven to be very effective. The age of pushing all our kids into college and away from skilled trades should end.

I like the sound of that system. The best social help a government can give its people is valuable training that allows them to have a good career. Of course, it seems like German culture puts a lot more value and prestige on being a skilled tradesman. I'm certain things like auto mechanics and electricians get a lot more respect.

kazoospec wrote: Well, at least now there's a plan they can get behind: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/14/rep-jesse-jackson-calls-on-government-to-hire-all-unemployed-americans-for/

Guys, Come on now. We all know Fox news has an ax to grind. They're as biased as DailyKos and Huffington Post. I think we can all agree that posting these links to biased websites really isn't effective.

xceler8x: What difference does it possibly make who's reporting this? Every news organization has an "ax to grind", the fact that it isn't your ax is what seems to be bothering you. What's truly amazing is that here we have a sitting member of Congress suggesting a fundamental shift in the structure of our government to full on socialism and nobody else seems to be reporting it.

kazoospec wrote: xceler8x: What difference does it possibly make who's reporting this? Every news organization has an "ax to grind", the fact that it isn't your ax is what seems to be bothering you. What's truly amazing is that here we have a sitting member of Congress suggesting a fundamental shift in the structure of our government to full on socialism and nobody else seems to be reporting it.

Now that we've all had a good laugh at Mr. Lebowski.

Not all media is as biased as Fox, Huff Post, MSNBC, or Breitbart. See! I was able to evenly call out left and right leaning entertainment.

I don't have a problem with Fox. Watch whichever entertainment channel floats your boat. But don't get confused and think that Fox, or again - Huffington post, is doing much more than feeding you news slanted to conform with your preconceived notions. Media bias is alive and well - on both extremes of left and right. Fox represents the reight..oh excuse me. Right. While Huff Po represents the left.

I'm suggesting that if you're trying to convince someone of the validity of your point posting links from an obviously biased source won't work. They get dismissed as propaganda because...well.....that's what they are.

Media bias works both ways.

I saw this in the paper this morning, and thought it might be relevant to the conversation: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/13/usa-economy-jobs-idUSN1E79B23O20111013 And just as an aside, its a problem in Canada too. I know an Irishman who has been here for many years who owns a construction supply company, who is actively recruiting and importing Irish tradesmen.

We've been shorthanded and trying to hire maintenance electricians for the last year. Most of the people offered the job are declining, saying $31/hr isn't enough.

xceler8x: What difference does it possibly make who's reporting this? Every news organization has an "ax to grind", the fact that it isn't your ax is what seems to be bothering you. What's truly amazing is that here we have a sitting member of Congress suggesting a fundamental shift in the structure of our government to full on socialism and nobody else seems to be reporting it.

Most of us liberals don't even care what Jesse Jackson thinks. We also know that it will never happen. So just because one guy wants to do this doesn't mean that the US is going to all of a sudden become "socialist".

If providing health care is such a huge tragedy on our constitution, there is no way in hell that plan would going any further than his mouth.

But it is very effective for Fox to push it's "Democrats are socialists" agenda. "See what those pinko bastards want to do". Seems like a perfect fit for the GB conspiracy-of -the-day show.

Zomby woof wrote: We've been shorthanded and trying to hire maintenance electricians for the last year. Most of the people offered the job are declining, saying $31/hr isn't enough.

If that is the case, they may be right. You're trying to hire at a wage that is not getting the position filled.

DILYSI Dave wrote:

Zomby woof wrote: We've been shorthanded and trying to hire maintenance electricians for the last year. Most of the people offered the job are declining, saying $31/hr isn't enough.

If that is the case, they may be right. You're trying to hire at a wage that is not getting the position filled.

These guys are turning down these jobs because there is a shortage of people with those skills and somebody down the street is paying $35 an hour, not because they want to stay at home and collect 40% of their salary in unemployment.

That's the point. There are more jobs than skilled workers, and that's driving the prices up.

I have about 1000 tirades I'd like to go on but instead I'll just stick to the initial topic of the Occupy crowd and what sticks in my craw about them....

Most of them have been "occupying..." whatever and wherever they are for a week or more now so either:

a) they have jobs with some really good time off policies or

b) I am paying 35%+ of my salary so they can collect unemployment and camp out.

Since b is the most likely answer here then I'm sorry, they've lost my enthusiasm already. Your job, while on unemployment, is to find or retrain for a new job, not to protest the very system that is putting food on your table. Do that on your own time.

As has been mentioned, there are plenty of blue collar jobs out there that pay good enough and need to be filled. People need to get over their overinflated sense of self worth and get to work.

My father made a decent living as a computer programmer back in the days when that was a rare skill. And he got laid off on more than one occasion. Never once did he collect an unemployment check, but I have vivid memories of him getting up each morning and instead of his usual suit and tie he donned coveralls and went to work painting houses. He would swallow his pride and ask friends and family if he could paint for them, he got more work through word of mouth and he worked and kept food on the table.

For a man who takes pride in himself and his work there is no work that is beneath him.

So while the Occupy groups may have some valid issues they need to get to work, if they work hard enough they too could be part of that 1% they hate so much.

Let those losers bitch in the cities, leaves more work for me.

Cone_Junky wrote:

xceler8x: What difference does it possibly make who's reporting this? Every news organization has an "ax to grind", the fact that it isn't your ax is what seems to be bothering you. What's truly amazing is that here we have a sitting member of Congress suggesting a fundamental shift in the structure of our government to full on socialism and nobody else seems to be reporting it.

Most of us liberals don't even care what Jesse Jackson thinks. We also know that it will never happen. So just because one guy wants to do this doesn't mean that the US is going to all of a sudden become "socialist". If providing health care is such a huge tragedy on our constitution, there is no way in hell that plan would going any further than his mouth. But it is very effective for Fox to push it's "Democrats are socialists" agenda. "See what those pinko bastards want to do". Seems like a perfect fit for the GB conspiracy-of -the-day show.

Why do so many dems want socialism then? Barny Frank, Maxine Waters, Obama filled his administration with socialists. Berny Sanders and the list goes on.

In reply to JThw8:

Most businesses here pay less than 1% of the first $7K of each worker's salary for unemployment taxes. So, if an business has a typical unemployment tax rate of 0.5% and the worker makes $35K, the employer is paying an effective unemployment tax rate of 0.1% on that employee. Yes, 1/10 of a percent. I haven't done an unemployment tax return in a few years, so I could be a little off.

In sum, "b" is pretty much impossible.

ThePhranc wrote:

Cone_Junky wrote:

xceler8x: What difference does it possibly make who's reporting this? Every news organization has an "ax to grind", the fact that it isn't your ax is what seems to be bothering you. What's truly amazing is that here we have a sitting member of Congress suggesting a fundamental shift in the structure of our government to full on socialism and nobody else seems to be reporting it.

Most of us liberals don't even care what Jesse Jackson thinks. We also know that it will never happen. So just because one guy wants to do this doesn't mean that the US is going to all of a sudden become "socialist". If providing health care is such a huge tragedy on our constitution, there is no way in hell that plan would going any further than his mouth. But it is very effective for Fox to push it's "Democrats are socialists" agenda. "See what those pinko bastards want to do". Seems like a perfect fit for the GB conspiracy-of -the-day show.

Why do so many dems want socialism then? Barny Frank, Maxine Waters, Obama filled his administration with socialists. Berny Sanders and the list goes on.

FWIW, Bernie is an Independent.

Carry on.