Occupy.... the Simthsonian?

donalson wrote: i'm going back to school... I was shocked at how much school costs have risen... about 200% increase since i've graduated HS 11 years ago... as for schools pushing "college is the only way"... our school offered a vocational school option for free... but the guidance counselors at our HS (what a joke) only seemed to push the pot heads towards those options...

A big part of the cost increase is government meddling in the loans. Another is dead beats who don't pay their loans back.

ThePhranc wrote:

donalson wrote: i'm going back to school... I was shocked at how much school costs have risen... about 200% increase since i've graduated HS 11 years ago... as for schools pushing "college is the only way"... our school offered a vocational school option for free... but the guidance counselors at our HS (what a joke) only seemed to push the pot heads towards those options...

A big part of the cost increase is government meddling in the loans. Another is dead beats who don't pay their loans back.

Where did you see this?

I went to California State University Sacramento. A state school, commuter campus. Large population of older students who had been in the workforce for years, or had kids, and were coming back to school because they wanted training to be able to have better career opportunities. Even younger students, the vast majority worked to pay at least part of their way through.

These were/are not people who felt like anyone owed it to them to send them to school for free, and who had made the conscious decision that a college education was the best path to a good life for them.

Tuition hikes have been making things more and more difficult for people who have to handle the entire cost themselves. It wasn't too long ago that a person could put themselves through a state school. They'd have to work and sacrifice, but they could do it. And when they were done, there would be more, better job opportunities out there for them.

Now you can't do it without taking 6-8 years and/or accruing huge loans, and there aren't enough jobs out there for the people who do graduate.

Salanis wrote: I went to California State University Sacramento. A state school, commuter campus. Large population of older students who had been in the workforce for years, or had kids, and were coming back to school because they wanted training to be able to have better career opportunities. Even younger students, the vast majority worked to pay at least part of their way through. These were/are not people who felt like anyone owed it to them to send them to school for free, and who had made the conscious decision that a college education was the best path to a good life for them. Tuition hikes have been making things more and more difficult for people who have to handle the entire cost themselves. It wasn't too long ago that a person could put themselves through a state school. They'd have to work and sacrifice, but they could do it. And when they were done, there would be more, better job opportunities out there for them. Now you can't do it without taking 6-8 years and/or accruing huge loans, and there aren't enough jobs out there for the people who do graduate.

This exactly what is happening at the University of Alabama Huntsville (where I graduated from).

93EXCivic wrote:

Salanis wrote: I went to California State University Sacramento. A state school, commuter campus. Large population of older students who had been in the workforce for years, or had kids, and were coming back to school because they wanted training to be able to have better career opportunities. Even younger students, the vast majority worked to pay at least part of their way through. These were/are not people who felt like anyone owed it to them to send them to school for free, and who had made the conscious decision that a college education was the best path to a good life for them. Tuition hikes have been making things more and more difficult for people who have to handle the entire cost themselves. It wasn't too long ago that a person could put themselves through a state school. They'd have to work and sacrifice, but they could do it. And when they were done, there would be more, better job opportunities out there for them. Now you can't do it without taking 6-8 years and/or accruing huge loans, and there aren't enough jobs out there for the people who do graduate.

This exactly what is happening at the University of Alabama Huntsville (where I graduated from).

Perhaps time would be better spent understanding why education has been getting more expensive. What has occurred within the education industry that made the costs skyrocket?

oldsaw wrote:

93EXCivic wrote:

Salanis wrote: I went to California State University Sacramento. A state school, commuter campus. Large population of older students who had been in the workforce for years, or had kids, and were coming back to school because they wanted training to be able to have better career opportunities. Even younger students, the vast majority worked to pay at least part of their way through. These were/are not people who felt like anyone owed it to them to send them to school for free, and who had made the conscious decision that a college education was the best path to a good life for them. Tuition hikes have been making things more and more difficult for people who have to handle the entire cost themselves. It wasn't too long ago that a person could put themselves through a state school. They'd have to work and sacrifice, but they could do it. And when they were done, there would be more, better job opportunities out there for them. Now you can't do it without taking 6-8 years and/or accruing huge loans, and there aren't enough jobs out there for the people who do graduate.

This exactly what is happening at the University of Alabama Huntsville (where I graduated from).

Perhaps time would be better spent understanding why education has been getting more expensive. What has occurred within the education industry that made the costs skyrocket?

Or that funding has been cut from higher education (this is a state problem not a national government problem though). At least it has been in the states I have experience with.

93EXCivic wrote: Where did you see this?

In a series of articles that outline the higher education bubble.

Salanis wrote: For those of you that missed it, the list of demands, is actually a list that was proposed by one ANONYMOUS person on the forum. Pretty much all of the responses to it, which I'm going to guess a healthy portion come from members of the movement, are negative. They have officially stated that these demands do not represent the goals of their organization.

Which just reinforces the point that whatever goals they have are ill-defined and largely unsupported by their supposed constituency.

ThePhranc wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: Where did you see this?

In a series of articles that outline the higher education bubble.

Is there a link? I am interested in reading them.

In reply to 93EXCivic:

I'd suggest that funding cuts are only a portion of the reasons for cost increases. But they are an easy target.

ThePhranc wrote: A big part of the cost increase is government meddling in the loans. Another is dead beats who don't pay their loans back.

You have a very negative view of people. I'm sorry you're so sad.

DILYSI Dave wrote:

I can see this. 99% includes a lot of people. This is not a left/right issue.

~~~~~~

All you haters better step back! Ben and Jerry's is on the case now!

Ben and Jerry said said: We, the Ben & Jerry’s Board of Directors, compelled by our personal convictions and our Company’s mission and values, wish to express our deepest admiration to all of you who have initiated the non-violent Occupy Wall Street Movement and to those around the country who have joined in solidarity. The issues raised are of fundamental importance to all of us. These include: * The inequity that exists between classes in our country is simply immoral. * We are in an unemployment crisis. Almost 14 million people are unemployed. Nearly 20% of African American men are unemployed. Over 25% of our nation’s youth are unemployed. * Many workers who have jobs have to work 2 or 3 of them just to scrape by. * Higher education is almost impossible to obtain without going deeply in debt. * Corporations are permitted to spend unlimited resources to influence elections while stockpiling a trillion dollars rather than hiring people. We know the media will either ignore you or frame the issue as to who may be getting pepper sprayed rather than addressing the despair and hardships borne by so many, or accurately conveying what this movement is about. All this goes on while corporate profits continue to soar and millionaires whine about paying a bit more in taxes. And we have not even mentioned the environment.

oldsaw wrote: In reply to 93EXCivic: I'd suggest that funding cuts are only a portion of the reasons for cost increases. But they are an easy target.

You are probably right about that. I mean the cost of books is fairly painful. I am sure something needs to be done more then just increase funding but I would say it is a big part of problem and I just have a hard time seeing the US continuing to be the superpower it is if we fall behind other countries (India and China) in the technology fields. And really the only way to do this is by providing an affordable higher education system.

MG_Bryan wrote:

Snowdoggie wrote: In reply to oldsaw: His actions were later in life. At one point he was out travelling the world and taking in the sites. Being a bum.

But what does that show in relation to people demanding that their education be handed to them because working for it is too hard? I really don't see the connection. The people in the streets claiming that a complete erasure of the global credit system is a good plan are never going to lead a business to success like Jobs did.

You might want to go out there and ask them. I'm not advocating free college for everybody and neither is every single person out there at the protest. I saw Ron Paul supporters and libertarians out there who wanted to do away with all government supported colleges entirely. Systems in other countries don't give a free university education to everybody who asks either. A lot of them administer an exam at the end of your high school years and only those with a high enough score get the free education. Everybody who doesn't pass gets to learn a trade or go work at the factory, so in some way they do earn it by studying hard enough to get a high enough score on the test.

Snowdoggie wrote: Systems in other countries don't give a free university education to everybody who asks either. A lot of them administer an exam at the end of your high school years and only those with a high enough score get the free education. Everybody who doesn't pass gets to learn a trade or go work at the factory, so in some way they do earn it by studying hard enough to get a high enough score on the test.

That's a plan that actually makes sense. It's at odds with our system that minimizes achievement in order to boost the self-worth of those who are less capable.

Xceler8x wrote:

ThePhranc wrote: A big part of the cost increase is government meddling in the loans. Another is dead beats who don't pay their loans back.

You have a very negative view of people. I'm sorry you're so sad.

I'm not sad. So be sorry for your self.

oldsaw wrote:

Snowdoggie wrote: Systems in other countries don't give a free university education to everybody who asks either. A lot of them administer an exam at the end of your high school years and only those with a high enough score get the free education. Everybody who doesn't pass gets to learn a trade or go work at the factory, so in some way they do earn it by studying hard enough to get a high enough score on the test.

That's a plan that actually makes sense. It's at odds with our system that minimizes achievement in order to boost the self-worth of those who are less capable.

I agree with idea but the problem is their are some people who don't do well with standarized test but are very smart.

Wow, this is like that "Rent" thing my wife made me watch. Halfway through I asked her if she realized that the whole ordeal was that they wanted to live somewhere for free. She did not until then.

Free education! Free healthcare! Free welfare! Free food! Make sure I have an awesome job! Make sure I have an awesome car!

Idiots. Some of these protestors may have valid points, but that's all I have heard thus far. Make someone else go to work (taxes, Doctors, pharmaceuticals, professors, farmers) while I sit home and reap the benefits!

Sometimes it's not about maximizing the output, it's about making sure you maximize the freedom.

Thinking about why the cost of a college education has gone up. My wife works for a state run college and they're trying to get the instructors to increase their work load by 40% higher than the state average while still paying them the same. They also have a three star restaurant on campus that no one eats at and loses millions every year. Why does a state run college need a restaurant especially one that loses money. Another college nearby spent millions building high dollar dorms to attract students. Just how did they pay for them? by increasing everyones tuition .

I also don't feel the majority of the occupy wallstreet people want a handout. I think they just want to work and make a fair wage without have to worry about having their job shipped overseas or being replaced by someone here illegally.

Irony has its' uses:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QTfNEDgusQ&feature=player_embedded

93EXCivic wrote:

oldsaw wrote:

Snowdoggie wrote: Systems in other countries don't give a free university education to everybody who asks either. A lot of them administer an exam at the end of your high school years and only those with a high enough score get the free education. Everybody who doesn't pass gets to learn a trade or go work at the factory, so in some way they do earn it by studying hard enough to get a high enough score on the test.

That's a plan that actually makes sense. It's at odds with our system that minimizes achievement in order to boost the self-worth of those who are less capable.

I agree with idea but the problem is their are some people who don't do well with standarized test but are very smart.

If they are very smart and motivated, they will find a way to make the "system" work to their advantage. Maybe they won't achieve their greatest goals; very few do. But, they and society will benefit from their efforts.

Our corporate system has also made having an education a requirement, despite enthusiasm or relevant work experience. For example, I was denied an internship in a field that I now work because I wasn't enrolled in a graduate program for planning. It was an unpayed internship!

There is no longer "free training" there is no longer "I'll pay you if your a good listener and a good apprentice."

We want people to be smart, experience, quick thinkers, but we also want to make sure they don't get paid more than their degree.

This is not a problem with the lowest class, this is a problem with the highest class. Lots of people want work, but lots of employers don't want to be bothered.

I think one of the biggest issues in our society is that we've kind of gotten too good at producing things. We can produce more goods with fewer people and cover the needs of everyone in this country. We do not need the full work force working to provide for everyone.

So what do we do with everyone who we don't really need to have working?

You can't just let it be a free ride or communism, because you remove the incentive to work. We still need a certain portion of the population to work.

I think what you have are all of the people who are victims of our efficiency who want to work and want to contribute and getting frustrated because they are being told that no one needs or wants them. That idleness and frustration is turning into stuff like this.

In reply to Salanis:

There are always trades to go into. The average age of a tradesman is 55 now. But most think they are too good to actually work hard all day. They also dont understand how much money you can actually make or the value of a trades skills.