Off Grid/Subsistence Living: Could/Would you do it?

One of the greatest achievements of modern man is the fact that my poop gets whisked out of view with a delightful slurping sound and I never have to think about it ever again.

Forget off-grid, I wouldn't even want to live with a septic tank.

Streetwiseguy wrote: Spending 24 hours a day creating enough calories to stay alive for another day is a skill set that I possibly have, and could hone, but I have no desire to do it, until it is required.

The irony is that if you have the skillset and the mentality to exist in the wild, those same skillsets are going to drag you back to the modern world as they try to keep you thriving; "barely surviving" will never be acceptable because it is a scary place to be.

A quick search tells me that you need a minimum of 2 acres of land to feed a family of 4. Now, go out and look at two acres of land and picture tilling, seeding and weeding that with nothing but a hoe? Wont leave much time for the hunting, fishing and wood chopping needed to get through the winter. Getting sick is not really an option either since there is no allowance for downtime.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote:

SVreX wrote: I have a cabin with no electricity, no running water, no heat, no telephone, and no cellphone reception. I really enjoy going there. Living completely off-grid would be a little tougher.

I really want this. I work for a tech company and need a place to unplug. I really want this.

It is very much worth it. In fact, I need to get back up there- it's been a little too long.

You are welcome to my place any time you like. Borders 30,000 acres of National Forest- some of the best trout fishing in the country.

wae wrote: One of the greatest achievements of modern man is the fact that my poop gets whisked out of view with a delightful slurping sound and I never have to think about it ever again. Forget off-grid, I wouldn't even want to live with a septic tank.

"Off-grid" and 'septic tank" aren't incompatible..."off-grid" and "sewer connection" are.

I don't figure I can.

But watching the shows also makes me wonder a lot if the people trying know enough to live off the grid. Which is to say- the shows are less reality and more entertainment.

Say the Alaska Bush People- they live in a forest of big, straight, structural trees. One would think it's pretty obvious that making a bunch of log cabins would be perfect for them. And they don't. How does that make any sense at all? Especially when other shows illustrate how straight forward that is to do.

There are a few other shows that are just like that- rather abundant resources for a dwelling, just to be ignored.

Another "ironic" part of this would be that you would nearly have to be "rich" to do this successfully. As NOHOME stated, an illness could starve the family. Also, how would you even deal with an unexpected expense besides healthcare?

I think I'd much prefer the Kilcher way of doing this. Somewhat on/off grid. Next to an established town for supplies. They are basically blue collar businessmen that lets them make money while supporting the lifestyle they live. Otto just sold a business and I believe Ivan owns a landscaping business.

Don't get me started on Alaskan Bush People. I could rant on for hours. Most scripted awful garbage on TV. They don't even live on the land that Discovery leases. They've also trashed that property.

NOHOME wrote:

Streetwiseguy wrote: Spending 24 hours a day creating enough calories to stay alive for another day is a skill set that I possibly have, and could hone, but I have no desire to do it, until it is required.

The irony is that if you have the skillset and the mentality to exist in the wild, those same skillsets are going to drag you back to the modern world as they try to keep you thriving; "barely surviving" will never be acceptable because it is a scary place to be. A quick search tells me that you need a minimum of 2 acres of land to feed a family of 4. Now, go out and look at two acres of land and picture tilling, seeding and weeding that with nothing but a hoe? Wont leave much time for the hunting, fishing and wood chopping needed to get through the winter. Getting sick is not really an option either since there is no allowance for downtime.

And you need a tenth of that to get the same production with aquaponics.

In reply to Nick (LUCAS) Comstock:

take aquaponics and grow freshwater fish in the water tanks. 'Hydroponics' I think the cool kids call it. Plants put o2 in the water for the fish, fish put urea in the water for the plants. 2 birds, one stone.

Scottah wrote: Don't get me started on Alaskan Bush People. I could rant on for hours. Most scripted awful garbage on TV. They don't even live on the land that Discovery leases. They've also trashed that property.

I was just talking to my brother, who has been living in AK for years about the "Bush People" , apparently they are in hot water for applying for permanent fund money, and aren't legit AK residents. And everybody hates them.

OTOH, the Kelchers are well respected.

In reply to Robbie:

Exactly. Tilapia is one of the common fish to use. Harvest fish and plants.

Nope, no desire to do it as a lifestyle, even if I did have the skill set. Wouldn't mind it as a vacation for a few weeks a year.

If family suddenly disappeared, I'd be there. It's hard, though. Read "Out into the Wild".

I am working towards it.. just need to finish the refit of my current boat, sail it for a year, sell, and buy a bigger one.. then I am out of here.

I would not call it subsistence living, but it's hard to be on the grid when you are any distance from land

I've thought about it. Not sure it would be something I'd want to do alone, but it would require the right companion.

The farm my ex's parents own in PA would have been perfect for this - since that is essentially what it was over 150 years ago. The property already has self-contained water (fed from a spring) and septic sewer (added by them in the 70's, but also has a traditional out-house) and even has an out of use mill along with a feeder pond that could be converted to hydro power with some work. There is more than enough land to grow food for a family or two, along with a possible soy crop to brew bio-fuel.

Of course, this property (a bit under 50 acres, including wooded areas) is probably valued at somewhere close to $1M today, so it would require substantial investment to get a similar set-up (they bought it in '69 before my ex was even born).

There is a level of hypocracy and self delusionment among the "off the gridders" that I find very off putting.

"I want solar panels", well pal that means that somewhere else there has to be a multi-billion dollar industry manufacturing that item. Or modern medicine, again you want to live off grid and not contribute to the common good until you need it, then you run to the hospital. Or dentistry, remember Tom Hanks in Castaway? Yeah, I don't want to live like that either. Ready to weave your own clothes from homespun wool? No, well you probably want a textile industry out there generating comfortable, durable clothes for you.

There is so much more to modern life than food and electricity, it simply defies comprehension.

Try this mental game: you are transported through time back to the birth of the United States. 1776 and you are there with your modern day knowledge. What could you do?

KyAllroad wrote: There is a level of hypocracy and self delusionment among the "off the gridders" that I find very off putting. "I want solar panels", well pal that means that somewhere else there has to be a multi-billion dollar industry manufacturing that item. Or modern medicine, again you want to live off grid and not contribute to the common good until you need it, then you run to the hospital. Or dentistry, remember Tom Hanks in Castaway? Yeah, I don't want to live like that either. Ready to weave your own clothes from homespun wool? No, well you probably want a textile industry out there generating comfortable, durable clothes for you. There is so much more to modern life than food and electricity, it simply defies comprehension. Try this mental game: you are transported through time back to the birth of the United States. 1776 and you are there with your modern day knowledge. What could you do?

Very, very interesting perspective. Kind of what leads me to believe that I'd rather lean towards a subsistence lifestyle and less about "I don't need society but I wear a mountain hardware jacket" attitude.

The funny thing about the reality shows is that they are constantly, constantly looking for the one person who is 100% self sufficient and doesn't use the modern world for a crutch in any way. That person doesn't exist with the exception of that Russian lady that lives her entire life in Siberia.

KyAllroad wrote: There is a level of hypocracy and self delusionment among the "off the gridders" that I find very off putting. "I want solar panels", well pal that means that somewhere else there has to be a multi-billion dollar industry manufacturing that item. Or modern medicine, again you want to live off grid and not contribute to the common good until you need it, then you run to the hospital. Or dentistry, remember Tom Hanks in Castaway? Yeah, I don't want to live like that either. Ready to weave your own clothes from homespun wool? No, well you probably want a textile industry out there generating comfortable, durable clothes for you. There is so much more to modern life than food and electricity, it simply defies comprehension. Try this mental game: you are transported through time back to the birth of the United States. 1776 and you are there with your modern day knowledge. What could you do?

Tell them to rewrite the interstate commerce clause - ba-zing!

I get it, but I think most of the people here are happy to have cash to buy their way into those things. It's not hypocrisy.

KyAllroad wrote: There is a level of hypocracy and self delusionment among the "off the gridders" that I find very off putting. "I want solar panels", well pal that means that somewhere else there has to be a multi-billion dollar industry manufacturing that item. Or modern medicine, again you want to live off grid and not contribute to the common good until you need it, then you run to the hospital. Or dentistry, remember Tom Hanks in Castaway? Yeah, I don't want to live like that either. Ready to weave your own clothes from homespun wool? No, well you probably want a textile industry out there generating comfortable, durable clothes for you. There is so much more to modern life than food and electricity, it simply defies comprehension. Try this mental game: you are transported through time back to the birth of the United States. 1776 and you are there with your modern day knowledge. What could you do?

In reply to KyAllroad:

They don't call it "progress" for nuthin.

Long term? No. Month long camping trip with the guys? Hell Yes. Pack a Suburban with a few full size coolers loaded with perishables. Pack a big honking trunk full of canned/dry goods. Bring along a few cases of chilled beverages, and 30 rolls of single ply (biodegradable ), a Harmonica, a decent guitar, some fishing poles, a suitable firearm, a football, a frisbee, and various camping necessities, and find an offgrid cabin that will sleep 6, near running water. Then, turn off the phone for a solid month. Heaven.

Living in the skins of the animals I killed for food, splintering their bones to use as sewing needles, tilling a few acres by hand with a rock, eating roots for weeks on end because thats all thats available in winter...sounds like hell.

KyAllroad wrote: Try this mental game: you are transported through time back to the birth of the United States. 1776 and you are there with your modern day knowledge. What could you do?

Start feverishly reinventing every thing from the modern world, and get stinkin rich?

I know how to make a basic DC generator, battery and simple electric motor from very basic stuff, I don't think I could make an AC generator from primative stuff though. I understand the principals of aircraft design. I understand steam propulsion fairly well. I think I could fairly well for myself in that scenario, or at least until I need to see an eighteenth century Dr.

Also, back to the serious side of this discussion, I have no desire to live fully of the grid, but self sufficient homesteading is a whole different thing, and I would like to try it. The kind of lifestyle that doesn't completely live divorced from the modern world, but doesn't heavily relie on it either.

KyAllroad wrote: Try this mental game: you are transported through time back to the birth of the United States. 1776 and you are there with your modern day knowledge. What could you do?

Materials, materials, materials.

Start with steel production, use that to pay for copper production, make electricity, and then go with aluminum production.

Everything that has been invented almost always needed better materials.

I'm not exactly blessed with the same green thumbs my mum has so subsistence living/homesteading would be a good way to lose weight for me.

That said, we've occasionally rented off-grid cabins (with flushing toilets and a septic system tho') as a getaway and I'm hoping to do it again either this or next summer. As an almost constantly plugged-in IT type, being able to unplug and stay unplugged for a while is a good thing.

In reply to Scottah :

People in Pennsylvania do it all the time, they just happen to be part of a religion that shuns modern things.