Guy built his kid a go kart track in a rural area, neighbors' pissed.
All he needed to do was apply for a permit. He did not. Seems reasonable to want someone to follow the rules.
I would be pissed if they were gas karts. Electrics should be fairly quiet. We are in a very rural area and I can hear my neighbors stupid single cylinder thumping "fwuller" 1/4 mile away. I hate it. Doesn't bother SWMBO. We lived in a subdivision in the county before this. It was legal for me to go out in the back yard and shoot my 30-06. Did I do that? Nooo. It's a subdivision full of houses with people who wouldn't appreciate the noise.
It doesn't seem smart to spend that much money to build that without getting it cleared first. I would love to have that at my house but I can understand the neighbors concern. The guy who's race car I work on built a small dirt track at his house, it's about 3/4 of a mile from my house (as the sound flies) and when he has his kart out on track it is disturbing at my house! Thankfully for the neighborhood that is usually 2 days per year so he gets away with it. Also there is no infrastructure with his, it is a dirt track in the middle of a pasture so what are they going to do make him plant grass?
When did "rural area" become equated to "I can do whatever the berkeley I want with total disregard for others"?
Nevermind... I already know the answer.
From the article they're only running electric karts there so noise shouldn't be an issue. Seems like busybody neighbors are grasping at straws trying to find a reason it shouldn't be there.
There were simpler and more efficient ways for Daddy Moneybags to get his little Lance Stroll's career started though. He could've taken that $100k track building budget, dropped $1k-$3k on a sim rig to plug into the gaming PC little Lance certainly already has, and saved the rest for a ton of time karting on other people's tracks (such as the ones he'd have to compete on). $50k can buy a season of national-level karting pretty easily.
Well, he did it without proper permits.
If he had $100k to dump on building a track, maybe a good compromise would be for the owner to install some noise-abatement fencing at his expense and restore whatever wetlands were damaged.
Also, what is a "fwuller" for those of us that don't speak the language.
In reply to ShawnG :
F'wuller as in "the coberater is tore up on my F'wuller" (Four wheeler)
Oh the Karen's are already here? Then I'm out
bludroptop said:When did "rural area" become equated to "I can do whatever the berkeley I want with total disregard for others"?
Nevermind... I already know the answer.
July 4th 1776
The only argument that I have any interest in there is that there was a permitting process that was ignored. Generally, I don't agree with permits qua permits, but I also think that when a rule exists, it should be enforced. And I have two reasons for that: First is simple fairness. Second is that with representative government, the best way to get rid of a bad rule is to strictly enforce it to the inconvenience of everyone.
Surrounded by million dollar homes, with a tennis court and what looks to be a practice golf course behind him. I am thinking the build plan was h3ll with rules I am going to build it. Unfortunately he is going to lose and have to tear it down, probably wrong state and community.
Steve_Jones said:All he needed to do was apply for a permit. He did not. Seems reasonable to want someone to follow the rules.
I agree he should have applied for necessary permits, but honesty that would not have mattered in this case. Again, shame on him for not, but even if he did, and used the track for private use with electric go carts, someone would still be mad, very mad about the fact that this track exists. "I can't believe someone is doing a hobby they enjoy that angers me for no reason whatsoever" is a common war cry. I'm convinced there is a miserable society of people that believe the only two hobbies someone should have are ones indoors (no videogames, of course) and walking. Even the walking should be heavily regulated. No dogs using the bathroom, not stopping in front of people's property, etc. etc.
Our local track also decided to ask forgiveness instead of asking permission. Caused them years of problems, partly with the council and partly with the neighbors they pissed off. Neighbors retaliated with incessant noise complaints that resulted in significant noise restrictions including sound level monitoring in the subdivision. Note that the track is in the desert, under the approach path of the airport and on the other side of the interstate from this subdivision, so nobody would have complained if they weren't pissed off first.
Get the permits. It's the easy choice in the long run, and the process does exist for a reason.
It definitely looks close to property lines if those are public roads/driveways in the pic. Like, you could end up with a kart in the road pretty easily.
Looks like it could be kinda fun to drive, though. There's more elevation change than the aerial photo would indicate.
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:bludroptop said:When did "rural area" become equated to "I can do whatever the berkeley I want with total disregard for others"?
Nevermind... I already know the answer.
July 4th 1776
you made me lol...
Actually that's not true. That sort of idiocy makes me sad.
I'm out - you all have fun now.
In reply to bludroptop :
The sort of idiocy like my reply?
Or the sort of idiocy like building something without permits?
I know a guy who moved to a fairly godforsaken place largely so he could do his stuff (Large scale art, running a few very small businesses, moving dirt around, building small structures and such) while being left alone. He was surprised at how much the county wanted due process followed....and then he and a large chunk of the county got burnt out. And now they have their noses in his business constantly. I think that it's a combination of concern that another fire could take place, and the thought that they have a chance to do things over following modern practices than all the crazy grandfathered stuff that existed before. He's slogging through, but had expected a lot less push-back than in his former address (San Francisco Bay Area). My takeaway: These things vary by address, but if you decide to skirt the rules, don't go crying if they catch you.
Kind of reminds me of this guy (younger guy) who was talking about living in Mexico. He said he liked it because you could have a loud party at 4 am and no one would care. Well... there are some people who live near that party may not enjoy loud music at 4 am... Then again, it did seem like if you grew up in that area, you very much got used to that sort of thing and the noise may not bother you. Depends on what you are used to, but that kind of also means you really should respect the local "standard".
One of the irritating things about lots of rules and regulations is they can become absurd when you have to navigate them. The other thing is that they are usually there because someone was being an inconsiderate a-hole in the past and that was the only way to keep it from happening again.
One of the reasons this is such a sore spot for people is that regulations get added to a lot more often than relaxed. Look at the building or fire codes. It would take rain man to remember it all, and where I live, to do it by the book has become a rich mans game. In this case, the owner may have made a calculated decision: Get all the approvals with the associated cost and time spent, or build it and hope for the best. The approval could take years, require a rezoning, and could be denied altogether.
Assuming that it's the immediate neighbor, if I were the track owner, I'd consider buying my kid the loudest 2-stroke dirt bike I could find and cut some paths along the property line. I wouldn't do it, but I'd sure think about it.
wae said:The only argument that I have any interest in there is that there was a permitting process that was ignored. Generally, I don't agree with permits qua permits, but I also think that when a rule exists, it should be enforced. And I have two reasons for that: First is simple fairness. Second is that with representative government, the best way to get rid of a bad rule is to strictly enforce it to the inconvenience of everyone.
I agree with this in theory, but I am pretty sure that over 90% of people who have ever done work on their houses have done some work at some time without the proper permits. (Most people would be shocked at what requires a permit).
I got the proper permits for the addition I am currently building on my house. Cost me $1200 immediately in permit fees, increased the cost of construction by about $10,000, and doubled my tax assessment (so now I get to pay double the taxes forever).
The assessment was 3X the actual cost of the addition.
I become more and more ok with not following these rules every time I encounter them.
Scotty Con Queso said:Steve_Jones said:All he needed to do was apply for a permit. He did not. Seems reasonable to want someone to follow the rules.
I agree he should have applied for necessary permits, but honesty that would not have mattered in this case. Again, shame on him for not, but even if he did, and used the track for private use with electric go carts, someone would still be mad, very mad about the fact that this track exists. "I can't believe someone is doing a hobby they enjoy that angers me for no reason whatsoever" is a common war cry. I'm convinced there is a miserable society of people that believe the only two hobbies someone should have are ones indoors (no videogames, of course) and walking. Even the walking should be heavily regulated. No dogs using the bathroom, not stopping in front of people's property, etc. etc.
They could be as mad as they wanted at that point, but if the rules were followed, too bad. It would have mattered in this case, because if it was a permitted track, there's nothing anyone could do to make him remove it.
NermalSnert (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to ShawnG :
F'wuller as in "the coberater is tore up on my F'wuller" (Four wheeler)
This made me spit out my water, haha. I had honestly never heard of this, and now I'm gonna use it any time it's relevant (which is frequently in my neck of the woods).
I agree with all of the above. A local guy is selling his blueberry farm because he loaned it out for weddings without a permit. "I didn't know" is not acceptable.
But I may have thought before spending $100,000 for a track, for that $100k how many trips can I make to the nearest track? How many times could the kid get a professional instructor?
In reply to 914Driver :
If there is risk of a helipad being installed, it's likely that the $100k cost of the track wasn't a big burden and is not the only investment being made into this kid's future. Also, my first thought was how cheap that was :)
I wonder how the average helicopter pilot would feel about landing on an unpermited helipad...
I know the FAA wouldn't like it. Unless , of course, the kart track was REALLY good! 😂😂
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