Old houses are like onions.

Nope.

patgizz wrote:

KyAllroad wrote: This floor reminds me why I always say "never buy a house older than you are".

but almost all houses built since 1980 are garbage.

They built good houses and crap houses in 1780, 1880, and 1980.

This story reminds me of the time I took the engine out of the 964 to replace the head studs.

Update! Floor is half re-framed (now flat and level) insulated and sheathed.

That meant I could tear out the other half.

Already made a new cross beam out of doubled 2x10s and now need to hang the rest of the joists. Then the fun part of making things fit around the fireplace begins.

Running tally of treasures found:

1 large dead mummified cat

3 mummified squirrels

1 1888 Wheat Penny

In reply to DaveEstey:

You gonna have the mummified critters mounted to use on the mantle? I sure would! (Note: I'd likely find myself divorced rather quickly in the event that were to occur, so YMMV).

patgizz wrote:

KyAllroad wrote: This floor reminds me why I always say "never buy a house older than you are".

but almost all houses built since 1980 are garbage.

Best built house I ever owned was built in 1981. It was semi-custom, but way overbuilt. We live di n less than 1 year before we had to relocate and sell it. I know what you are saying though. I feel the worst houses are some of those being built right now out of OSB by untrained people who can't hit the rafter with the nail gun.

DaveEstey

For the love of God man or the FSM take all the scrap wood out of the crawlspace man.

Nice work, and congrats for having an older house like that. Any pics of the outside?

It got raked up before things were sealed.

SWMBO didn't like the puppet show I put on with the dead animals.

I don't have many photos of the exterior. This stuff being done isn't in the main house, but the "renovated" back half that was a milk room back when this was a dairy farm.

EastCoastMojo wrote: I was hoping you were going to discover a beautiful original hardwood floor under that carpet. This reminds me of the time our dog dug through the 6 layers of linoleum that the previous owners laid down in the kitchen. We removed the remaining linoleum to discover a plywod sub floor with a circular removeable cutout. Well, that's interesting. Gtta check out what's under there, right? Under the plywood was a manhole cover, and under that was the original hand dug terra cotta lined ~40 foot deep well, with water still in it. It's no longer in use, as we have a much deeper well in the front yard. We looked for any sign of a body or sunken treasure, but found only cave crickets.

When we ripped apart the flooring of the ex's kitchen we found a 3'x3' 1/2" steel plate covering an old brick-lined well. The kitchen is an addition and the well was once outside the back door. There was water in it as well. Oh yeah... I found the steel plate after removing the largest, most disgusting mouse nest I've ever seen. I sealed it up as best I could with Great Stuff and put down new plywood. Right now, the stove and island cabinets are over it.

OP - the "flooring over flooring" thing is quite normal in old houses. Remember they didn't have plywood back then, so they used tongue & groove boards as the sub-floor and installed the finished floor over it. Unfortunately, what you are seeing doesn't surprise me one bit. At least in the ex's house, they made an attempt to insulate the pipes they ran hither-there...

DaveEstey wrote: It got raked up before things were sealed. SWMBO didn't like the puppet show I put on with the dead animals.

Women have no sense of humor.

spitfirebill wrote:

patgizz wrote:

KyAllroad wrote: This floor reminds me why I always say "never buy a house older than you are".

but almost all houses built since 1980 are garbage.

Best built house I ever owned was built in 1981. It was semi-custom, but way overbuilt. We live di n less than 1 year before we had to relocate and sell it. I know what you are saying though. I feel the worst houses are some of those being built right now out of OSB by untrained people who can't hit the rafter with the nail gun.

The reason it feels that way is that most of the crappy houses of the past have been knocked down--often to put up a newer, bigger one that is not necessarily any better. The neighborhood that my parents live in doesn't really see it too much because the builder is pretty renowned in our town, building houses from the 50's to the 80's. Some will get a second story added on, some will get an addition or two, but the only one that has been knocked down that I'm aware of was one that was uninhabited for about 15 years and had a lake view. A near identical neighborhood across the street, with basically the same exact amenities, frequently has houses bought and knocked down. Just weren't great houses.

I was shocked to see that whoever bought my grandparents house knocked it down. It was a 2.5 bath, 3 bedroom that could have easily been a 3.5, 5 bedroom with a huge kitchen, awesome dining room, and even better living room and family room. Sure, it needed a lot of updating--but everything in it was solid and functional. The brick walls were about a foot deep. Every pipe was copper. It really was extremely over built, and it was only a ranch! They could have added on another story! I'm not mad at it, I loved the house and the experiences there, but it is theirs now--but I am just surprised that THAT house was a knock down.

After finding that penny I'd be all about a metal detector before I re-framed it. That's how I get distracted though.

Duke wrote:

patgizz wrote:

KyAllroad wrote: This floor reminds me why I always say "never buy a house older than you are".

but almost all houses built since 1980 are garbage.

They built good houses and crap houses in 1780, 1880, and 1980.

My house was built in 1935. After 20+ years of living there and seeing how it was built, I am convinced the original builders didn't have a dream in the world it would still be standing 80 years later. Part of what makes me procrastinate on renovations is a large part of me wants to just knock it down and start over.

spitfirebill wrote:

DaveEstey wrote: It got raked up before things were sealed. SWMBO didn't like the puppet show I put on with the dead animals.

Women have no sense of humor.

I think the cockney accented cat may have put her over the edge.

dead mice theatre

In reply to Ian F:

We have 8800 sq-ft of old downtown building(2 interconnected) built in 1898. I've certainly found a few puzzling features(trap-door on the 3rd floor that goes nowhere, widow openings on interior walls) a 10'x12' area - now a bath/laundry - that appears to have been a stairway or buggy lift...), but surprisingly/fortunately no major WTF moments. The walls are ~13"-thick brick, with airspace between the inner & outer sides, that are interconnected every few courses - I'd love to know what treasures/junk was put in there during construction or has slipped away into oblivion over the years, but there's no access without at least partial demolition.

Our old(now rental) house was built in 1878, or at least the front part was. Peering into the narrow crawlspace it appears the foundation is mostly a few stacks of flat limestone placed strategically here & there. It's still pretty level though, so I'm definitely not touching it!

Duke wrote: They built good houses and crap houses in 1780, 1880, and 1980.

Just have more of the crappy houses from 1980 still standing. I ran into a couple of examples of rather sketchy houses from older time periods last time I was out house hunting. There were a couple one story houses with more elevation changes than Road Atlanta.

spitfirebill wrote: I feel the worst houses are some of those being built right now out of OSB by untrained people who can't hit the rafter with the nail gun.

From what I've seen, those guys drive staples instead of nails-- gives them two shots at hitting the rafter each time!

ALL of the above is why SWMBO and I are finally having a new house built. We are just done with 20 to 40 year old houses that were built with lowest cost materials, assembled by the lowest cost subs. We spent a year carefully examining the better contractors and their work before choosing the builder. And I discovered that the devil is truly in the details, not just the construction specs. It became an obvious pattern that the intangible things like the feel of the way doors and drawers open and close, the precision (or lack thereof) of the door frames and window casement installation, how tight and solid-feeling the various fittings are (door handles, faucets, light fixtures, etc.) will tell you just how solidl and precise the rest of the construction is, or isn't. I discovered that I can walk through a house and simply open and close all the doors and drawers, and know whether a house was built with true talent, skill, and precision.

Decrying the pitifulness of OSB or staples, or bragging on the greatness of 13" thick walls betrays a lack of understanding about the building process.

Quality construction is not defined by mass.

Just like cars. A big, fat, heavy, steel frame does not define a "better" car. It defines a bigger car, that is all. Sometimes, it exhibits a construction method which has been eclipsed by better engineering.

OSB is an exceptional product, when it is used for what it was designed for. Staples can have much more holding power than nails. 13" thick walls are sometimes very good, but sometimes have completely pathetic insulating capabilities or structural characteristics.

Karacticus wrote:

spitfirebill wrote: I feel the worst houses are some of those being built right now out of OSB by untrained people who can't hit the rafter with the nail gun.

From what I've seen, those guys drive staples instead of nails-- gives them two shots at hitting the rafter each time!

You are right. They used staples and still missed the rafter. Whether or not they figured it out and shot another row I have no idea. The shingles were on.

People today also don't seem to be able to run trim worth a E36 M3.

In reply to SVreX:

You're making a lot of assumptions.