Part of the issue is finding someone to provide quality work. Every time I end up farming something out it costs 6x as much and the end result is garbage. Those few folks that do provide quality work are GOLD and I do not let them go (ie. pay extremely well, keep in touch, etc).
In reply to Enyar:
I understand. The industry is a mess. But the bottom line is the old methods for insuring quality are still the best.
I have been doing construction for over 30 years and NO ONE has EVER asked me for references. NO ONE has EVER checked my insurance coverages, gotten an insurance certificate, checked for my business license, or verified my Contractor's License.
NO ONE has EVER asked me to get permits, or checked with the building department, or inspector.
Not a SINGLE person has EVER visited a completed job, or a work in progress.
People have asked me for a quote, but only to identify the cheapest price- I will not be considered if I am not lowest (they fail to recognize many contractors know how to play this game, and the consumer looses). Less than 5% of customers pay the money to a design professional to have a decent bid package for contractors to actully be able to have consistent information to bid on.
Every single article I have ever read about finding a good contractor has made the recommendations, and no one does ANY of it. I have books that were written in the 1800's that say the exact same thing about how to find a good contractor.
The only thing of value is a referral from a friend. But those friends have virtually no understanding of what quality is, so those referrals turn into a popularity contest, not a recognition of quality workmanship.
With all due respect, consumers are lazy and cheap, and they have created a market for poor workmanship. If they can't find the info on a website, they won't even try (and websites with referrals and prices are packed full of lies- another thread).
I am one of those contractors who does things right. This may sound ridiculous, but if I had it to do again, i wouldn't. I would choose to know much less about my craft, be friends with many more people, and care much less about the quality of the work I offered. I would be much wealthier, have much less stress, and have worked much less to accomplish it.
Consumers talk about quality, but as a general rule do not follow through and put their money where their mouth is. I'll bet I am asked 500 times per year "How much do you charge per square foot?", and the ONLY jobs I've EVER gotten from those conversations are the ones in which I lie and tell a number much lower than what it will take.
It's a berkeleyed up industry, but it is entirely driven by the consumers. Sad but true.
SVreX, you'll be glad to know that when my friend had his house built, he had me do site visits when he was out of the country. 
This was a subdivision getting built out, so he didn't really have a choice of contractors.
My wife did the same when her first house was being built (being in construction, this isn't surprising). Good thing, too - the builders had flipped the plans, and this was going to cause a real problem with the driveway and an electrical box. She was able to get that fixed with only a bit of extra concrete removal. Same deal.
I've lived in houses built in 1909, 1912, 1954 and 1976. And some others that I have no idea. There was no massive difference in the construction quality of them that I could tell - the old ones were showing their age because they were old, and the newer ones seemed just fine. The only obvious quality problem on the 1976 house was textured plaster and popcorn ceilings. I've done enough plaster work to know that's a considerable shortcut, and it's starting to fail at the top of the vaulted ceiling. Builders around here love their spray-on finish.
SVreX said: It's a berkeleyed up industry, but it is entirely driven by the consumers. Sad but true.
Reminds me of when I lived in Nigeria and was discusing African versus European business practices.
It was explained to me that while Europeans were forced by their climate to develop a quid-pro-quo economy, in Africa, all business was conducted as between the Lion and the Zebra. Only question was who was going to end up the Lion and who was going to be the Zebra at the end of the transaction?
In reply to SVreX:
What's funny- I had someone come in for a bid, they claimed that we would not choose them because they would be too expensive. I had no idea how they figured we would be cheap- but they did.
But the real reason I could not choose them was because their bid was not what I asked for- they assumed that they could not do what I wanted, so altered the plans. There are issues with the "quality" people, too. I still see their signs up in higher end neighborhoods, over 20 years later. No idea how they are in business- given that they did not supply me with a bid design that was even acceptable.
In reply to SVreX:
Hear, hear.
As an architect I almost never get single-family residential commissions. Nobody wants to spend the money to design exactly the house they'll want to live in forever, if they could buy a new sofa and widescreen (both of which will be outdated in 5 years) instead.
Honestly, it's not all about money, either. I've had potential clients for big expensive houses tell me to my face that they didn't want anything other than a big conformist McMansion because they wanted to make sure it "looked like what everybody expects a house to look like." And mostly they don't care about the underlying quality or plan arrangement at all, as long as the finishes look expensive and it's impressive from the end of the driveway.
Interestingly enough, the 2 - count 'em, 2 - residential clients I've had in 25 years who truly recognized the personal value an architect offers both became long-term friends after the house was designed and built.
In reply to SVreX:
Up front costs are still King in the commercial world as well. Even in the free-cash pharma industry. Granted, here we are generally issuing fairly strict design specifications and contractors can only bid if they are on an owner approved bidder-list, which generally limits the risk of inferior quality. Still, I'll often survey installations in a big-pharma facility and go, "WTF?"
In generic/contract pharma, it can be every bit as cut-throat as in the residential world.
If you ever look at generic pills and say, "eh... it's all made in the same factory..." Well, all I can really say is, "No. They're not. Not even close." I've been in a few generic facilities that scared the berk out of me.
Dusterbd13 wrote: Holy berk they welded wood
Meh... 
In reply to Duke:
I think some of the difference there is the concept of buying a house to live in and those who buy it as a short-term investment. Let's face it, a lot of "appearance minded" buyers didn't care about long-term quality because they didn't plan on living in the house for more than a few years before they sold it for a profit and moved on to the next, bigger house. I'm sure that thinking has bit a few of them in the ass... and probably most of the poor sods they sold those houses to.
My ex is an engineer, so when she had her plans drawn up, she used one of her architect coworkers to smooth things out. That said, the framing GC created their own plans to submit for permits, although I'm pretty sure they used the CAD files she provided as a basis.
I wasn't really making a distinction between residential and commercial. Same problems, different scale.
I only do commercial now, but it's still the same.
Contrary to what most people think, there are no quality standards in construction. There are safety standards, environmental standards, etc., but not quality.
Well, "quality" can be such a vague term. It means different things to different people with different expectations.
I consider my no-frills 2008 Dodge Grand Caravan to be a "quality" vehicle. My expectations were set by the price I paid for it. Others may have different expectations.
In my business, "quality" tends to mean a few things. Essentially, giving the customer what they want (even if it's not what they asked for) while staying within budget and with a minimum of design errors. The more complex the project, the more elusive "quality" will be.
In reply to Ian F:
Quality varies. Quality standards do not.
Your Caravan had a rather extensive set of quality standards. The vehicle was built to those standards. If consumers do not like those standards, they can buy something built to different standards.
Construction has no quality standards. Consumers make a purchase based on assumptions about quality, which may or may not be correct (This guy's a good builder, "Real" wood is better than OSB, etc).
There is no way to compare a finished construction project with another and decide which is better quality.
The Architectural Woodworking Institute developed quality standards for woodworking projects, but they have to be adopted by the design professionals and made part of the contract. I used to be an inspector for them.
Inspectors and independent testing agencies inspect the work for compliance to safety standards and design specifications, but not for quality.
But quality standards basically don't exist in most of construction, except as defined by specifications on a job-by-job basis.
I've talked too much. Let's get back to Dave's floor.
Back in action tonight:
The big stuff goes fast, like hanging joists and insulating. The little things, like making small pieces to bridge the old crossbeam that's anything but flat - now that takes time. And beer.
Floors feels awesome. Added a couple concrete block piers under the new double 2x10 beam to help avoid any possible bouncy feeling. None found when I'm jumping on it!
SVreX wrote: In reply to Enyar: I understand. The industry is a mess. But the bottom line is the old methods for insuring quality are still the best.
Yep! I'm that guy that always gets the astonished look when I ask for references/to see past work. Unfortunately my list of go to guys are limited to a select few. The rest promised quality but didn't quite deliver.
Know anyone in Tampa looking for work?
After two more days of work, the floor is finally closed up for good and ready for flooring.
I found several beams entirely rotten, which turned into a big deal. Everything is new lumber now and the floor feels more solid than ever.
SVreX wrote: I am one of those contractors who does things right. This may sound ridiculous, but if I had it to do again, i wouldn't. I would choose to know much less about my craft, be friends with many more people, and care much less about the quality of the work I offered. I would be much wealthier, have much less stress, and have worked much less to accomplish it.
Integrity's a bitch, isn't it?
Progress report. We hemmed a hawed about the fire place and decided to extend the apron. I'm not a mason, but I watched a lot of youtube videos and read how-tos. I'm going to have to dirty up the new bricks to blend them in a little.
With that done it's FINALLY time to start putting hardwood down. This project has dragged on far too long.
Looking good.
You'll need to log in to post.
