Old school dealerships

In reply to ShadowSix:

I think it has something to do with the idea of a 7,000 point inspection done on every pre-owned car, and the idea that dealer trade-ins are somehow superior in quality. Plus, most of my family seems to just want to trade in their cars when their payments are about up and get a shiny new or newer car and payment book.

I really enjoy buying a car that someone is trying to sell on their lawn. At least they can give you an idea of the care the car has had and any upcoming maintenance it needs. It's typically a better experience all the way around.

I can't wait to turn up this weekend in my new to me 06 p71 that I snagged for about half of book value. Lulz

The trick, I find, is to go in on a slow day, and clearly not care if you leave with a car or not.

Did that when I got my new car last month, and in the course of about an hour, I got them from offerring me a grand under KBB for my trade and sticker for the new car, to $500 under KBB for my trade, and $2000 under KBB (!!!) for my new car.

They must've thought they could get a really good resale price on my trade in to make the deal, too. There was no financing because my trade covered all but $300 of the new car, and I paid that cash.

this is my favorite car salesman........"let's not forget Pearl Harbor....."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbQWO22pprk

Man, I'm glad my dealer doesn't do that crap... That I know of...

I'll only ever buy new if there's not a single car in the used pool available. Which is why I found myself in Ourisman Honda in Bethesda MD in the fall of '02 trying to buy an '02 Civic Si ep3 hatch in white w/ zero options. I'd seen the same row of white ones in their garage for months, not moving. I'd gotten a verbal deal that morning from a dealer on Long Island for $14k.

So, at Ourisman they were taking turns being the "manager" and generally dismissing the notion that anyone would sell an '02 Si for $14k. Finally I asked the guy to write down his fax# and picked up his phone and called the Long Island dealer. My wife by the way, is sitting next to me. I get the salesman and say:

"Hey, buddy. I want to come up to get that white '02 Si, but my wife is busting my balls on this. I keep telling her you're a stand-up guy and that we're good on the $14k + $100 paper fee and $40 for a paper tag, but she swears it's bait an' switch and I'll drive all the f*cking way to Long Island and get stuck with some other number. She's cleared me to go if you'll fax me a signed buyer's agreement for the deal. I don't have a fax at home so I came into the office. I've gotta run in about 20 minutes though, so if we're gonna make this work I need it pronto. So, do we got a deal?"

10 minutes later I watched the sales guy pull the sheet off the fax and I could lip read him saying: "Son. Of. A. Bitch.". They wouldn't budge on $14,300, and eventually I agreed to that but wouldn't pay for ANYTHING other than the base car. I kept the floor mats and locking lug nuts and had to peel the "accent stripes" off myself. I put down 8 or 9k and financed the rest at .09% for the longest term w/o penalty for early payoff. When they parked me w/ the finance+upsell woman w/ the low cut shirt I said "I'll take the finance deal on the website-.09% for 60 month, no penalty for early payoff. No paint sealant, no Scotchguard, no undercoat, no alarm, no stereo, no dealer installed anything. One car for $14-3, tag and title. Thanks!"

When Ourisman Honda in Bethesda MD - where no one should ever willingly buy anything - stonewalled me on warrantying the shortblock when the car was using a quart of oil per 800 miles w/ 2 months and 2000 miles left on the warranty - I went to O'donnell in Ellicott City where the guy listened to what I said, looked at the 2 thoroughly documented=per-Honda's requirements oil consumption tests and said "Sounds like the rings glazed on the delivery drive, I'll have a new shortblock here next week"

So - that one was the last one. Every other car I've owned and will own will be bought used from a private party, preferably the original owner. period.

Max_Archer wrote: is to go in on a slow day

Slow day and end of month. They'll practically do anything to make the sale.

One thing people need to realize though is that some cars don't have much bargaining room, basically, anything under $20k. I'm not saying that they aren't trying to screw you, but it's just something to keep in mind. I typically try to get them to throw something in instead (getting them to pay for winter tires is a $600 expense that is muchly appreciated).

The only reason I'd buy new is because of free (0-0.9%) money. Say you save up $20k to purchase a car outright? You'd be retarded not to invest that $20k at 5+% and take the 0% financing!

Our friend is a car salesman and he tells me he hates customers as much as we hate them. I won't even buy a car from him either!

I called him a year ago telling him I'm looking for a five year old Sentra/Civic/Corolla sized car......."good luck" he tells me. LOL

I worked at a Ford dealer in Marietta back in 2004. I hated selling cars and I hate selling just about anything to this day. I did the little walking from my desk to the sales managers desk dance enough times that I do not ever want to do it again. I hated having to basically lie to people about how much bargaining room was left and having to overcome people's complete mistrust of me. Damn I hated selling cars.

I will tell you the things that I feared the most and they come from informed customers:

1. Edmunds.com and knowing the difference in MSRP, Invoice, and Hold-back. And knowing what all of those are on the car they are looking at.

2. Knowing what they can get for their trade in at Carmax.

3. Knowing to get the price on the new car without the trade-in FIRST, then say you want to trade your car in and show what you can get for the car at Carmax.

4. Figure out you own financing and find out what, if any, rebates are available if you finance through them. That would be FACTORY rebates, not some bullE36 M3 they come up. Weigh those out before you go to the dealer.

5. Be prepared to walk out of the door that day in a standoff. Don't let the dream of you being the first one to fart in the seats of a car that day sway you.

HiTempguy wrote: The only reason I'd buy new is because of free (0-0.9%) money. Say you save up $20k to purchase a car outright? You'd be retarded not to invest that $20k at 5+% and take the 0% financing!

Til Bank of America mails the bill to the wrong address a few years into the payment, bumps you from the 0% plan and tags you with a bunch of fees.

I'd rather have no debt thanks.

If I hold the title then I'm the one who can screw it up. If the bank holds the title any knuckle dragging neanderthal may be on the other end and can screw it. Chase couldn't even get the payoff amount on my credit card right.

HiTempguy wrote: The only reason I'd buy new is because of free (0-0.9%) money. Say you save up $20k to purchase a car outright? You'd be retarded not to invest that $20k at 5+% and take the 0% financing!

I know that when I sold cars it was either a rebate(a couple to few $1000s) or the 0% financing. Paying with cash always won out, it was deciding if taking the rebate or the 0% paid off in the end. But in the end you are buying a new car and getting a $3000 or so equity kick in the groin when you take delivery.

Oh and I forgot the other trick...

If you have the cash, you could finance with the dealer for the rebate and pay that E36 M3 off at the first payment.

My best new car experience came at VW when my wife was 8 months pregnant, there is nothing as persuasive as a PO'd, hungry, sore footed pregnant woman.

HiTempguy wrote:

Max_Archer wrote: is to go in on a slow day

Slow day and end of month. They'll practically do anything to make the sale. One thing people need to realize though is that some cars don't have much bargaining room, basically, anything under $20k. I'm not saying that they aren't trying to screw you, but it's just something to keep in mind. I typically try to get them to throw something in instead (getting them to pay for winter tires is a $600 expense that is muchly appreciated). The only reason I'd buy new is because of free (0-0.9%) money. Say you save up $20k to purchase a car outright? You'd be retarded not to invest that $20k at 5+% and take the 0% financing!

Depends on the car, though. My aforementioned car blue books at $16,200 before TTL. I paid $14,500 for it, which worked out to $16,000.01 OTD. They were actually advertising similar discounts on a few other 2s, but they were all auto, and my 2 was still listed at sticker until I worked them down.

My lovely pre-owned Patriot we got last week had me set foot into a franchise car dealer for the first time in almost 20 years. Had I been able to find the same vehicle anywhere else I would not have gone, but...

The Jeep was advertised on the internet at $11,185, which was a pretty appealing price based on what everyone else was asking. KBB private party was only mid 10's, so even if I wound up paying the posted price I was okay. We do the test drive, get the "clean CarFax" spiel, the 100,000 point inspection spiel, and then the sales guy says he'll give us a minute to discuss it while he goes in and gets a figure for us (no trade), to which I called after him "make it a low number". I'm thinking: Sweet, he may actually knock a little off without me beating him up.

You can begin laughing.

So we sit down at the desk and he has a lovely pre-printed breakdown of the cost, which seems high to me. Sure enough, the base price is $11,800. Uh, excuse me, but this thing is on your web site for $11,185. Look of shock on sales guy's face. He'll be right back. Comes back, "Do you have a copy of the posting?". Well sonuvabitch, I just happen to have it with me. Leaves. Comes back with some kind of manager who explains that they "adjusted the price to reflect the current market" since I printed that off a week ago.

So let me get this straight, I tell them. You've got a vehicle that's been on your lot longer, and your idea to move it is to raise the price? "Well, the used car market is really hot right now, and the cost to replace this unit with another one would be higher." Uh-huh. I explained as calmly as I could that I drove an hour to potentially buy a vehicle, at best, at the advertised price, which I told them smart people rarely do. I liked the vehicle and I wanted to buy it, but if we're going a penny more than $11,185 I'll be leaving and driving an hour back home and won't be repeating the trip. Color drains from their faces, they rush off to the 'manager's office' while I sit and curse the existence of car dealerships across the land. Luckily for all involved, they agreed to sell for the price I had on my printed paper (again, a price I wasn't offended by) and even were smart enough to not try to sell me anything in the finance office other than a car. To this day I wish I'd checked the internet daily to see just when the price on that Jeep went up; my suspicion is it was the day before, when I scheduled the test drive (and foolishly didn't discuss price in advance).

Datsun1500 wrote:

motomoron wrote: - I went to O'donnell in Ellicott City where the guy listened to what I said, looked at the 2 thoroughly documented=per-Honda's requirements oil consumption tests and said "Sounds like the rings glazed on the delivery drive, I'll have a new shortblock here next week" So - that one was the last one. Every other car I've owned and will own will be bought used from a private party, preferably the original owner. period.

I am surprised you wouldn't at least go back to O'donnell, sounds like he treated you right.

Come on dude, this is only supposed to be a one-way street.

I must have found the perverbial pot of gold in dealers when buying my vehicles everytime. I don't think I have spent more then 1 hr in the showroom before it was out the door and just having to come back to sign papers then driving away. Maybe it was from never having a trade-in or buying the back lot ready for auction vehicles. I always walked in knowing what the price was, what I was going to pay, and driving off "happy".

If I was able to afford something "new" right now, first words out would be, "Let me see the used car inspection RO." If they don't want to give it up, I walk. That tells me what has been fixed, what didn't get fixed, and potential negotiating on margin without even knowing the price of the vehicle.

ahutson03 wrote: My best new car experience came at VW when my wife was 8 months pregnant, there is nothing as persuasive as a PO'd, hungry, sore footed pregnant woman.

You're darn tootin'. They're scared she might pop on the sales floor.

I thought only people with bad credit went to those places to get taken advantage of.

Never give them your keys until after you negotiate the sale price!

I just bought a truck from a dealership. But they're one of my clients so I don't know if my experience was the norm. Either way I was in and out in an hour and nobody upsold me on a thing.

Funny thing is, I know the owner of that dealership (and several other local dealerships). I didn't do any name dropping.

Duke had some very good advice, but he forgot THE biggest thing to remember:

Unless you REALLY need THAT car....you can always leave a dealership.

Man, all my time shopping at a dealership has been cake compared to what some of you have put up with.

Buying my wife's car last year from an import only used dealer was simple. I checked the website, found it listed for $9k(KBB $11.5) the night before, decided to keep that one in mind. Re-checked the site in the morning before heading out, it was down to $8K. Got there and looked at it, dealer said the price dropped less than an hour before. We decided to take it, put down $100 to hold it. Took the sale order to the bank, took less than 30 minutes to apply, get approved, and sign the bank paperwork. Went back the next day with the bank check and the rest of the down payment. The longest wait was for the DMV paperwork.

Otherwise, I just go with a fixed price dealer, and everything but BRAND NEW models is $100-$5000 under list.

I've solved the obnoxious dealership issue by walking if I get too bad of a vibe. Years ago I bought a Saturn primarily because of the dealership experience, even though it was not my favorite car that I had test driven.

Nowadays, I'm more willing to negotiate, but if I don't like the place, I leave. It helps that I live in an area with several dealerships for all the major brands. Sadly, the nearest big stealership near me is pretty scuzzy, so despite having a Mazda dealer 3 miles from my house, my wife's 6 and my Miata were bought from a dealer about 25 miles away. Although after my latest service trip there, I may be looking for yet another place.

ShadowSix wrote:

Racer1ab wrote: At family gatherings, I typically get a hard time because I always buy used stuff off Craigslist or sold off of forums. They are always telling me how I'm going to get taken advantage of by not purchasing a car from an actual dealership. I always tell them that at worst, I have one person trying to screw me over in a private sale. At a dealership, you are dealing with a group of trained professionals who are all trying to screw you. I'll take my chances with the private sales.

I never get this. Why do some people think a car dealership is more honest than a private individual? A related phenomenon is the person with the 10 yr. old car who has every oil change done at the dealership.

I'm gonna stay out of the slimy salesman side of this, but there's a good reason for getting your car serviced through a dealership. If the car goes out of warranty and there is a problem, the manufacturer is under no obligation to repair it. They will offer 'out of warranty assistance' in some cases, it varies but normally they will go as much as 24 months/24,00 miles past the end of the factory warranty. The rep will ask some questions and the #1 question on the hit parade is: do they service the car with you? No? So solly, Cholly. They don't even ask the other questions which are usually did they buy it from you and does there appear to be any abuse involved. Then there is also one other question: did the owner threaten to never buy another car if this one isn't fixed. (THAT one is pretty much guaranteed to get the door slammed, BTW.)

At that point, the owner can squeal like a stuck pig but again the mfg is under no obligation to fix it once out of warranty.

Curmudgeon wrote:

ShadowSix wrote:

Racer1ab wrote: At family gatherings, I typically get a hard time because I always buy used stuff off Craigslist or sold off of forums. They are always telling me how I'm going to get taken advantage of by not purchasing a car from an actual dealership. I always tell them that at worst, I have one person trying to screw me over in a private sale. At a dealership, you are dealing with a group of trained professionals who are all trying to screw you. I'll take my chances with the private sales.

I never get this. Why do some people think a car dealership is more honest than a private individual? A related phenomenon is the person with the 10 yr. old car who has every oil change done at the dealership.

I'm gonna stay out of the slimy salesman side of this, but there's a good reason for getting your car serviced through a dealership. If the car goes out of warranty and there is a problem, the manufacturer is under no obligation to repair it. They will offer 'out of warranty assistance' in some cases, it varies but normally they will go as much as 24 months/24,00 miles past the end of the factory warranty. The rep will ask some questions and the #1 question on the hit parade is: do they service the car with you? No? So solly, Cholly. They don't even ask the other questions which are usually did they buy it from you and does there appear to be any abuse involved. Then there is also one other question: did the owner threaten to never buy another car if this one isn't fixed. (THAT one is pretty much guaranteed to get the door slammed, BTW.) At that point, the owner can squeal like a stuck pig but again the mfg is under no obligation to fix it once out of warranty.

I was actually talking about people with older, well out of warranty, cars that refuse to get an oil change or buy windshield wipers anywhere but the dealer.

However, I would NEVER spend hundreds of dollars getting my car serviced at the dealer for years based on the gamble that they MIGHT fix the car out of warranty. I imagine it would be hard to find someone who has saved more money than they've spent doing that. That said I don't buy VAG products so I don't worry much about catastrophic failures in the first five years.

I've only ever bought one new car, and it was only because I had a raging woody for the new 3rd gen Camaro in 1982. I cashed in a life insurance policy for the downstroke, financed the remainder, in 1982, at the height of the inflation calming interest rates- 24.5%, if I recall, and left the dealership so happy I almost peed myself.

I'm guessing that salesman was very happy to see me, although I remember all 3 GM dealers in town having row upon row of new F bodies turning over weekly.

I still own the car, so I guess it wasn't that bad an investment. $14,200 plus financing. And a fresh 350, and a supercharger, and a couple of transmission upgrades, and an 8.5" 10 bolt, and a couple of sets of tires per year...I'd kinda hate to add it all up now.