One reason why I will never own....

A modern Volkswagon/Audi..... Today at work I managed to get the luck of the draw on doing an oil change on a 05 Passat with a 1.8T and a 06 Audi A4 with said engine as well. The oil filter location and lack of reasonable access room to get to the oil filter is absolutely f'ing ridiculous! WTF were the engineers thinking when they designed these cars? Not only is it a pain in the ass to get to, but when you finally loosen it and remove it all of the oil leaks into the subframe and gets all over the place.

Needless to say both of my arms look like a cougar used them as a scratch post, along with some small burns. All this for one hour of pay. And to think all these VW guys hate on Hondas and VTEC....

DirtyBird222 wrote: Needless to say both of my arms look like a cougar used them as a scratch post, along with some small burns. All this for one hour of pay. ....

So dont date a "cougar" that scratches you. All the ones I see just hang on the guys arm amd flirt. Of course she is paying you by the hour for this and Im sure there are other "fringe benifits" Or am i missing the point?

I've always had a VW around (or 2 or 3), but never anything newer than '99. I almost bought a B5 Passat, because they drive very nice, but I did a little research into the possibility of DIY timing belt changes, front suspension work, etc. The older models (Mk3 and older Golf/Jetta) are quite simple cars really. The new ones, well they are stupid complex to say the least. I love the old ones, I'll never own new one.

I think I could do a timing belt AND an oil change in a little over an hour on my old 16v Jetta. Its frustrating, I don't see the upside of the complexity on the newer models.

just did the 08 rabbit (2.5 5cyl) a few weeks ago, a little confusing at first, but after I figured out how it was set up, simple and clean process. theres even a purge valve in the oil filter console, though i suppose there is a special tool to use it properly. like all things German, once you learn the engineers perspective, and only then, will the configuration make sense, and service becomes allot easier...

Yea well with Honda's...it's plain, simple, and to the point. Oh and their cars are a lot more reliable :) There are only a few cars where Honda engineer's said "phuck the techs"

I had an A2 that was not only easy to work on, it was CHEAP. Parts for that car were cheaper than a mid-80s GM.

I'll shamefully admit that I spent ~an hour searching for the dipstick/filler for the ATF in a friend's neighbor's 2000 and something VW before finally saying "berkeley it. I dunno. Take it to the dealer."

poopshovel wrote: I'll shamefully admit that I spent ~an hour searching for the dipstick/filler for the ATF in a friend's neighbor's 2000 and something VW before finally saying "berkeley it. I dunno. Take it to the dealer."

It might not have had a dipstick or a filler for the trans fluid. Many new cars have transmissions that are "sealed for life" and don't include a means to fill the fluid or even check it. The 5-speed Mercedes transmission used in the supercharged Jaguars is that way. "This transmission was designed by German engineers and will never fail, so you have no need to check the fluid."

Bob

Yup, non-serviceable unit.

This seems to be a German thing. BMW motorcycles went to an effectively sealed final drive unit ('rear end,' for those of us in the car world) when they went to the 'hex head' engine, and it caused much consternation. It would be one thing if the final drives were bombproof to begin with, but the 'oil head' bikes (from '94 to, what, 2003?) had a history of catastrophic final drive failures, do to overloading and overheating.

So, what's the German solution? Make it non-serviceable, of course.

It only takes abou 45min to drain the oil out of the AC beetle. But that gives me plenty of time to do the valve's too.

alex wrote: So, what's the German solution? Make it non-serviceable, of course.

that way the average owner can't berkeley it up... still a lousy idea

My favorite is the lifetime BMW Transmission Fluid. They forget to tell you that its the lifetime of the tranny, not you or the car.

mtn wrote: My favorite is the lifetime BMW Transmission Fluid. They forget to tell you that its the lifetime of the tranny, not you or the car.

They've recently wised up and changed the service interval to 100k miles, at least the maintenance book on my 7 says so anyway. But yeah, I always hated the "lifetime" fill - lifetime of the new car warranty, after that, too damn bad.

I had an '03 Passat 1.8T and I can't quite figure out what you are complaining about. You take the intake hose clamp off, push the hose out of the way... reach in and unscrew the filter. Its a 5 minute job. It takes another 2 to put a cut-up milk jug under it so the oil won't leak onto the frame.

There were many things about that car that were difficult (timing belt comes to mind) but the oil filter isn't one of them.

My oil filter is right on the front of the motor.... winking up at you as soon as you lift the hood.

Changing oil is a 10 minutes, tops affair.

Schmidlap wrote:

poopshovel wrote: I'll shamefully admit that I spent ~an hour searching for the dipstick/filler for the ATF in a friend's neighbor's 2000 and something VW before finally saying "berkeley it. I dunno. Take it to the dealer."

It might not have had a dipstick or a filler for the trans fluid. Many new cars have transmissions that are "sealed for life" and don't include a means to fill the fluid or even check it. The 5-speed Mercedes transmission used in the supercharged Jaguars is that way. "This transmission was designed by German engineers and will never fail, so you have no need to check the fluid." Bob

Well damn.

My 94 V6 Camry is the same way. It's not that hard to get to, but you can not in any way remove the filter without soaking the subframe and catalytic converters. I hate changing oil on that thing, my Vic is a 5 minute job and not one drop will hit the floor or the car. Celica is fairly good but it has the roots of a Toyota. The oil filter is still installed facing down, but there is nothing below it so it can be removed with only minimal cleaning.

DirtyBird222 wrote: A modern Volkswagon/Audi..... Today at work I managed to get the luck of the draw on doing an oil change on a 05 Passat with a 1.8T and a 06 Audi A4 with said engine as well. The oil filter location and lack of reasonable access room to get to the oil filter is absolutely f'ing ridiculous! WTF were the engineers thinking when they designed these cars? Not only is it a pain in the ass to get to, but when you finally loosen it and remove it all of the oil leaks into the subframe and gets all over the place. Needless to say both of my arms look like a cougar used them as a scratch post, along with some small burns. All this for one hour of pay. And to think all these VW guys hate on Hondas and VTEC....

Funny thing is they are pretty easy once you know the tricks, the belly pan comes off, the oil goes out the bottom, the filter goes out the top, the filter goes back on, the oil plug goes back in, the oil goes in, run test, check for leaks, install belly pan, collect $89.00

DirtyBird222 wrote: Yea well with Honda's...it's plain, simple, and to the point. Oh and their cars are a lot more reliable :) There are only a few cars where Honda engineer's said "phuck the techs"

...one of those being the K24-powered TSX. There is absolutely NO way to get the oil filter off without dumping dirty, hot oil all over the subframe and your chest.

My crappy $1800 GF Impreza, on the other hand, can get an oil change in about 5 minutes under any conditions without jacking the car.

Haha, my P5's oil filter is on the back of the motor underneath the intake manifold. You can't even see it from above the car. Have to lay on my back and reach up next to the exhaust to get it.

1982 Toyota Corolla FTW!

5 minute oil change, no lift, no jacks.

Oil goes out the bottom.

Oh, look, there's the oil filter, I'll just unscrew it and lift it out the top.

Assembly is the reverse of disassembly.

Done.

I'll let you all in on a little secret.

stop

buying

new

cars!

Every vehicle I have can get an oil change without a jack, without messy cleanup and without excessive screwing around.

Shawn

Um, the 2001 Highlander I share with the girlfriend is the same way.

Oddly, I still dread doing it because I'd rather be working on the race car.

Sounds like my ZX2

I just got rid of a 92 Civic that i did not like changing the oil on. The filter was under the intake manifold, hard to reach. Both of my SAABs on the other hand are dead simple, lay on the ground reach under and undo the drain plug and a little forward of that is the filter, nice and easy. My wife had a 90 Celica what was a snap, open the hood and the oil filter was right there, very simple.

my girls toyota echo is a no-jackstand affair too...

oil filter is literally 5" back from the bumper facing up (so you don't spill anything) and the drain plug is right next to it.

:P