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turboswede
turboswede GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/4/13 11:06 a.m.

berkeleying seriously? Between the way the City of Portland has been run lately and the bought and paid for State Government, I'm seriously looking at moving someplace warm so that at least when I'm getting screwed by the people that are supposed to be representing me, I'll at least be able to enjoy sunny days.

Car makers have been pressured to make more fuel efficient cars, people have been pressured to buy them or to drive less in general. WE uphold our end of the bargain and the government realizes that they aren't making as much money because of it. So instead of cutting their budgets, they expect us to continue to pay more? Oh and we also get to be tracked by them too? Yeah, no thanks. No thanks very much!

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/01/oregon-considers-per-mile-tax-on-fuel-efficient-vehicles/

“Everybody uses the road and if some pay and some don’t then that’s an unfair situation that’s got to be resolved,” said Jim Whitty, manager of the Oregon Department of Transportation’s Office of Innovative Partnerships and Alternative Funding.

Ah, yes. As with any number of current governmental activities, the rationale for per-mile taxation will be fairness.

With the recent American election safely delivered into the appropriate hands, there’s no longer any need to sugar-coat the facts of life in the United States, is there? So let’s not. The unemployment rate is dipping because many people have simply given up and have either stopped looking for work or have dropped off the five-year cliff beyond which the Bureau of Labor no longer considers people unemployed – as if being unable to find a job for five years and one day was somehow equivalent to swanning one’s way off to Sun City, AZ. Meanwhile, we’re reassured that the middle class hasn’t disappeared — it just looks like the lower class now.

This modern life, this grey parade of single mothers and hopeless, underemployed men listlessly piloting the oldest automotive fleet in the country’s history between 29-hour-a-week “part-time” jobs, dismal food, and lonely evenings lit only by the constant flickering of the Internet as the one-percenters and rich kids of Instagram breeze past in an ever more obscene panoply of tasteless, pumped-up hyper-SUVs and bluff-faced, BMW-based Rolls-Royces. It’s not just bad for morale. It’s bad for taxes. And if some of the nation’s proles have the nerve to swing a loan for a more fuel-efficient car in the hopes of simultaneously preserving scarce resources and making a long-term positive economic impact in their own lives… well, something will have to be done.

The Statesman-Journal reports that Oregon has started a pilot program to study the implementation of a per-mile travel charge. This was apparently done in response to stricter CAFE standards and concerns that a smaller fleet of more fuel-efficient vehicles would impact gas taxes, which are already declining as more and more people just stay home.

Under the pilot, about 50 participants in Oregon paid 1.56 cents per mile and received a credit for the gas tax they paid at the pump. Participants, which mainly included transportation officials and lawmakers, chose from five plans with different ways to track miles driven and pay their bill.

They could report miles driven using a smartphone application, a geographic positioning system device or a reporting device without GPS.

Participants could also pay a flat annual charge or opt out of using a gadget in the vehicle to record miles.

The existing state gas tax is thirty cents per gallon, so this program would effectively return revenues to the days when the notoriously thirsty Ford Explorer was simultaneously doing 400,000 units or more a year and punishing the buyer of each one with real-world fuel mileage in the 15-mpg range. If you’re wearing a tinfoil hat right now, you’ve no doubt considered a likely implementation scenario where the flat fee will be based on a very high annual mileage and payable in a high-three-figure lump sum, while the privacy-eroding GPS-tracking device will be easy to use and the most affordable choice.

Insofar as this program deliberately encourages people to hold on to older, less fuel-efficient vehicles, the Obama administration will surely have an opinion on Oregon’s antics. The state’s famously liberal urban residents might also have a strong opinion about a program that seems targeted at electric and plug-in vehicles. One question perhaps not covered in the pilot program is this: If a young man lets a pair of valets put two hundred miles on his father’s vintage Ferrari, will running it in reverse on a pair of jackstands result in a tax refund?

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
1/4/13 11:15 a.m.
yamaha
yamaha SuperDork
1/4/13 11:15 a.m.

The way I see it, the gasoline tax is a milage tax..........sure the fuel sippers don't pay as much into it, but I see that as their reward for driving something miserable.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/4/13 11:22 a.m.

and the fuel sippers, with their smaller tyres and smaller footprint on the road, do not do the damage that bigger and heavier cars do.. so I think it is a wash

All Electric Vehicles on the other hand... that is where things get tricky. I can only imagine they have to go by the odo for taxation reasons.

failboat
failboat SuperDork
1/4/13 11:33 a.m.

as a household that has a daily combined commuting mileage of 250 miles, I think this idea sucks.

turboswede
turboswede GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/4/13 11:35 a.m.

Aside from the BS lack of foresight and poor accounting. The tracking piece is what galls me.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/4/13 11:41 a.m.

I agree with you, Turbo... I would not want one of those in my car

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/4/13 1:18 p.m.

Seems like a dumb idea to me to punish the people with less wasteful vehicles...

z31maniac
z31maniac PowerDork
1/4/13 1:19 p.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: Seems like a dumb idea to me to punish the people with less wasteful vehicles...

Punish?

It's just making sure they are paying their fair share!

/troll /flounder /patioextension

ransom
ransom GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
1/4/13 1:27 p.m.

That last option is pretty vague. I don't really like any form of tracking, but the no-GPS, mileage-only I don't have as much issue with, especially if it only reports on a monthly or annual basis...

Perhaps metering car-chargers? Analogous to taxes at the pump, and no specific indication of where you've driven, or how quickly.

More efficiency with tax money would be great, but that's always been the case. I don't have a particular problem with trying to get road users to continue to pay for the roads in a significant fashion. Unfortunately, the roads aren't going to get a lot less expensive to maintain just because cars use less gas.

I do hope it isn't too difficult in terms of hoop-jumping to avoid the GPS tracking for mileage. That seems like an egregious overstepping of the necessary amount of data for the purpose.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/4/13 1:55 p.m.

that is an idea Ransom. Let the car's build in charger tally up the amount of voltage it "drinks" and bill on that. The State may be able to figure out how far you went.. but won't know when or where

ultraclyde
ultraclyde Dork
1/4/13 2:14 p.m.

given the likely eventuality of government-required computer piloted vehicles (for our own safety, think of the children), it will be a moot point before long.

dculberson
dculberson SuperDork
1/4/13 2:16 p.m.
ultraclyde wrote: given the likely eventuality of government-required computer piloted vehicles (for our own safety, think of the children), it will be a moot point before long.

I bet you it won't be during our generation.

Given that they're still very much in beta, I would be surprised if they're even on the market within 15-20 years much less mandated within the next 40-50.

DrBoost
DrBoost PowerDork
1/4/13 2:25 p.m.

I've been predicting this for years. I've even said it here on this board somewhere. I don't pay road tax to speak of. I mean, I burn through what, 3 or 4 tanks of fuel a year but I drive 20,000 miles in my DIY hybrid. I tried to find out from the state how I can pay my fair share and they had no idea. So, I knew it was only a matter of time before they realized they could take more of our dollars.
Once Oregon does, the rest will follow suit.

carguy123
carguy123 UltimaDork
1/4/13 2:28 p.m.

This'll teach those green weinnies!

There's an old saying about how you can't get ahead in life and I guess this just proves it.

I don't like it, but if you think about it logically then there has to be something to replace the gas tax if people don't need gas anymore.

Makes you wonder what they'll do to replace the cigarette taxes when you lose all the cigarette smokers?

Derick Freese
Derick Freese SuperDork
1/4/13 2:50 p.m.

In reply to carguy123:

As long as you have the South, you'll have cigarette smokers.

turboswede
turboswede GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/4/13 2:53 p.m.

BTW, the City of Portland uses gas tax revenues as collateral to pay for pork projects:

http://bojack.org/2011/11/portland_quietly_borrows_15_mi.html

needless to say if gas tax revenues drop too much, well they can't pay the loans off.

Its a huge joke and if you watch Portlandia, you get an idea of how the government wants the city to be portrayed and work.

ahutson03
ahutson03 Reader
1/4/13 3:20 p.m.

Ha I just got orders to transfer to portland in June, I was excited an had heard nothing but good things about it. Oh well I guess it's good I'll maintain my Florida residency, that has kept me from dealing with local taxes here in North Carolina.

novaderrik
novaderrik UltraDork
1/4/13 3:25 p.m.

isn't Oregon where all the people that are ruining California move to when they realize that they are ruining California?

lather, rinse, repeat...

turboswede
turboswede GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/4/13 3:45 p.m.
ahutson03 wrote: Ha I just got orders to transfer to portland in June, I was excited an had heard nothing but good things about it. Oh well I guess it's good I'll maintain my Florida residency, that has kept me from dealing with local taxes here in North Carolina.

Its still a great place to live, just don't live in Multnomah County and you'll be better off in the long run. We have a lot of cleaning up to do after Vera Katz, Sam Adams and Randy Leonard and the mess they've made with their pet pork projects and pandering to the cast of "Portlandia" aka the unwashed, underemployed kids.

Milwaukie, Sandy, Boring, St. Johns, even Gresham are all good to great areas to live in. For large lots and big garages you'll be better off in Vancouver and Camas, Washington, but you can still find some places like that in the Portland Metro area (Scappoose is another option) they are just harder to find.

The mild weather, lack of salted roads and relatively cheap vehicle registration means we have a lot of great old cars still running and driving.

There's 4 great road racing tracks within a day's driving distance: Portland International, Pacific Raceways, The Ridge Motorsports Park, Oregon Raceway Park and Spokane Raceway.

There's SyKart for indoor Karting and Pat's Acre's Raceway for outdoor Karting.

There's a few motorcross tracks, Pat's even does Motard racing.

Of course there's ton of Autocross, Drifting and Drag Racing (PIR, Woodburn, Pacific Raceways for example)

turboswede
turboswede GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/4/13 3:46 p.m.
novaderrik wrote: isn't Oregon where all the people that are ruining California move to when they realize that they are ruining California? lather, rinse, repeat...

Yep and many ran back to California after a year or two of grey skies and rain or when the job market/real estate imploded.

wbjones
wbjones UberDork
1/4/13 4:09 p.m.

lots of states are talking about/considering this .... AFAIC they can all go berkeley themselves ...

similar situation here with water ... several yrs ago there was a severe draught and everyone was required to conserve water ... no watering the lawns, no washing the cars etc .... when the draught eased and the water dept realized that they were severely short of income they decided to just raise the rates .... we do what we're asked to do and then we just bend over and take it

ahutson03
ahutson03 Reader
1/4/13 4:59 p.m.

Thanks turboswede, I'm excited, it's got to be an improvement from the nc coast. Having a track that close will be awesome. I can't wait to do some car and bike track days.

turboswede
turboswede GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/4/13 5:03 p.m.
ahutson03 wrote: Thanks turboswede, I'm excited, it's got to be an improvement from the nc coast. Having a track that close will be awesome. I can't wait to do some car and bike track days.

Well, there are a few of us here, maybe we'll run into each other out at PIR.

Check out out Where2Race.com on Facebook or online for schedules.

bgkast
bgkast GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/4/13 5:25 p.m.

Sounds like typical Oregon, they love to tax!

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