Owning a plane on a grassroots budget?

There's a plane on the local CL, for reference.

1946 Aeronca

1946? Isn't that getting a little old to be flying over my house in?

914 if you look at other pictures the wingshape that picture implies is very different than reality. In that picture it looks like that thing has a typical long thin wing of more "normal" gliders. The reality is the wing has a very deep chord a the body and a straight leading edge with a lot of taper to the trailing. At the back of the wing near the fuselage is some short elevator tabs. This does not diminish that crafts awesome awkwardness. If I where buying a Sailplane I would look long and hard for one of those for sheer WTF's.

Genesis 2.

Love the sound! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKaC-88a-Ho

pinchvalve wrote: There's a plane on the local CL, for reference. 1946 Aeronca 1946? Isn't that getting a little old to be flying over my house in?

The average age of all aircraft types in the general aviation fleet in this country is now 40 yrs old. Many of those Cessnas, Pipers, Beechcrafts, etc flying over your house are eligible for an AARP card and a senior discount at Cracker Barrel, and many, many, many of the pilots are 75+ yrs of age

Aeromoto wrote:

pinchvalve wrote: There's a plane on the local CL, for reference. 1946 Aeronca 1946? Isn't that getting a little old to be flying over my house in?

The average age of all aircraft types in the general aviation fleet in this country is now 40 yrs old. Many of those Cessnas, Pipers, Beechcrafts, etc flying over your house are eligible for an AARP card and a senior discount at Cracker Barrel, and many, many, many of the pilots are 75+ yrs of age

And I trust every damn one of them over my neighbor in her SUV death-mobile that despite only being 2 years old hasn't had any maintenance whatsoever and is already making death noises. Plus she drives like a lunatic.

In reply to Javelin:

That 310 your father flies is a nice airplane. My first charter flight as a captain was in a 310. I learned alot in twin engine Cessnas. Do get to fly the 310?

In reply to pilotbraden:

It's a 64 "i" model. I've flown right seat in it well over 200 hours, but nothing that can be logged obviously. It's a sweet plane, it's just right for weekend trips all over the US and into cool islands. I have some neat shots of him buzzing the VAB with it (he worked for USA and is an instructor for Embry-Riddle). I'll have to scan that and post it.

Javelin wrote:

Aeromoto wrote:

pinchvalve wrote: There's a plane on the local CL, for reference. 1946 Aeronca 1946? Isn't that getting a little old to be flying over my house in?

The average age of all aircraft types in the general aviation fleet in this country is now 40 yrs old. Many of those Cessnas, Pipers, Beechcrafts, etc flying over your house are eligible for an AARP card and a senior discount at Cracker Barrel, and many, many, many of the pilots are 75+ yrs of age

And I trust every damn one of them over my neighbor in her SUV death-mobile that despite only being 2 years old hasn't had any maintenance whatsoever and is already making death noises. Plus she drives like a lunatic.

I totally agree

Build your own. It's really the only affordable way. $20,000.00 for a 40+ year old, used plane? Build your own. You can have this for about $5-6,000 and a year of your time:

Build your own. Join the EAA. Start looking on Barnstormers.com

Or how about something like this?

Saw one for sale locally last year. 5 years old, 250 hours, Jabiru 3300, glass panel, for 25K.

Appleseed wrote: Build your own. It's really the only affordable way. $20,000.00 for a 40+ year old, used plane? Build your own. You can have this for about $5-6,000 and a year of your time: Build your own. Join the EAA. Start looking on Barnstormers.com

I would love to build something like that someday.

I have been religiously visiting barnstormers for months now.

In reply to Appleseed:

That is a good looking airplane. What type is this? Is that 2 cylinder better half engine?

pilotbraden wrote: In reply to Appleseed: That is a good looking airplane. What type is this? Is that 2 cylinder better half engine?

Going off the tail number looks like it is a Hummel.

http://www.flyhummel.com/

http://www.hummelengines.com/

Much as I would love to fly, the last thing I need is another expensive time soak.

One thing you forgot to budget is add some silly multiplier to your life insurance policy. I fogot about this. When I got my most recent insurance policy they asked If i was a private pilot, planned to become one, knew one, lived near one, thought about one, or heard of what one was. If any of these things where true my premium would be quite high. My agent at the time was a Private pilot and he actually did not have insurance from any company he represented because all of them would not insure private pilots for competitive amounts.

nocones wrote: One thing you forgot to budget is add some silly multiplier to your life insurance policy. I fogot about this. When I got my most recent insurance policy they asked If i was a private pilot, planned to become one, knew one, lived near one, thought about one, or heard of what one was. If any of these things where true my premium would be quite high. My agent at the time was a Private pilot and he actually did not have insurance from any company he represented because all of them would not insure private pilots for competitive amounts.

Life insurance is covered by my employer.

fanfoy wrote: Or how about something like this? Saw one for sale locally last year. 5 years old, 250 hours, Jabiru 3300, glass panel, for 25K.

I think the Sonex is the best aircraft in its class although I’d opt for the Waiex version which offers identical performance, cost, etc. but sports a cool “V” tail configuration. BTW, the aircraft was designed by John Monnett who is very highly respected…I read his biography last year and it’s a great David and Goliath story of a non professionally trained aeronautical engineer on a grass roots budget making it through sheer conviction and commitment to his values.

Also, John is the founder of AeroVee which makes one of the most sophisticated VW aero conversion engines on the market so you don’t have to use the Jabiru.

Does anybody remember the magazine back in the 80's called Affordable Flying? Bhahah!!!...I think they only published a hand full of issues which is understandable given the content challenged subject matter.

Damnit I hate you guys! I thought I had the homebuilt bug out of my system long ago. That hummel looks like it would be a hoot to hop from grass strip to grass strip with.

Spinout007 wrote: Damnit I hate you guys! I thought I had the homebuilt bug out of my system long ago. That hummel looks like it would be a hoot to hop from grass strip to grass strip with.

…do a Google search on the guy that moded his Hummel to take a full VW engine. The plane has a beautiful cylindrical cowling along with additional fairings.

Unfortunately, the combination of having twice the power along with reduced drag meant that he had no problem exceeding VNE in straight and level flight. I’m not sure why he didn’t know what could happen but for whatever reason, he would routinely fly beyond VNE and almost bought the farm one time when got into pronounced aileron flutter.

Anyway, you'll want to check out the pictures if you're into Hummel's.

RX Reven' wrote:

Spinout007 wrote: Damnit I hate you guys! I thought I had the homebuilt bug out of my system long ago. That hummel looks like it would be a hoot to hop from grass strip to grass strip with.

…do a Google search on the guy that moded his Hummel to take a full VW engine. The plane has a beautiful cylindrical cowling along with additional fairings. Unfortunately, the combination of having twice the power along with reduced drag meant that he had no problem exceeding VNE in straight and level flight. I’m not sure why he didn’t know what could happen but for whatever reason, he would routinely fly beyond VNE and almost bought the farm one time when got into pronounced aileron flutter. Anyway, you'll want to check out the pictures if you're into Hummel's.

He could have simply build an Ultra Cruiser Plus. It's basically a Hummel with the full VW, meant to fly fat people. Or was it too long ago?

Even though there have been some good points made there are a few real things to consider.

First, what do you want to do with the airplane? Are you just punching holes in clouds, do you want to build hours toward a career in aviation (not recommended!) or do you want to commute or travel in it?

Second, are you sure you have the budget for an airplane? It WILL cost more than you think.

If you are flying for pleasure a light sport or experimental can be perfect. They can be reasonable fun for the money. If you build the airplane then you may qualify for a repairman certificate. This will allow you to perform your own conditional inspections on your own airplane. The conditional is the experimental version of an annual. Remember too, you cannot use the aircraft for any operations for financial gain.

If you are building hours toward a career, my advice would be to not buy a plane at all. You would be better to start giving flight instruction. You will want to keep moving up, getting experience in different types... you may want to GET paid instead of paying to fly.

Commuting can be a subject all it's own. Back in the late 70s I worked at a place in California. There were 4 guys that lived on the other side of the Bay (much cheaper housing and a horrid commute across the Bay bridge, jointly bought an airplane and a car to leave at San Carlos.... it worked for them.

Traveling is not a subject for a small budget. You will want something fast, Mooney, Bonanza, Cirrus, Cessna 210. If you have the budget for a twin it will open some possibilities. For serious cross country work you will NEED the best in avionics and that bill could easily run $40-60,000 or more. I looked at getting a plane for regular trips to Colorado from Indiana. I figured (IIRC) about 6 hours in a Mooney as opposed to 1.5 hours to Indy, an hour to get through security, 3 hours? on Frontier and 3 hours from Denver to our destination... better use of time but $1200 total for fuel as opposed to 2 round trip tix at $200 each.

fanfoy wrote: He could have simply build an Ultra Cruiser Plus. It's basically a Hummel with the full VW, meant to fly fat people. Or was it too long ago?

that's pretty

In reply to triumph7:

Been flying off and on with dad for 24years, probably have a couple hundred hours unlogged. I started flying lessons towards my license when I was 18, and shocked my instructor with my proficency. Learned IFR due to not being able to see out out over the dash when I first started, heck I could barely see out the side window. Something to get back in the air on the cheap would be my only goal. Maybe like I said some grass strip hopping, find some where with a strip and a close by fishing hole.

triumph7 wrote: Even though there have been some good points made there are a few real things to consider. First, what do you want to do with the airplane? Are you just punching holes in clouds, do you want to build hours toward a career in aviation (not recommended!) or do you want to commute or travel in it?

Travel and eventually a career in it hopefully.

Second, are you sure you have the budget for an airplane? It WILL cost more than you think.

I am pretty confident I do, though now that I am getting closer to it actually happening I have been second guessing myself.

If you are flying for pleasure a light sport or experimental can be perfect. They can be reasonable fun for the money. If you build the airplane then you may qualify for a repairman certificate. This will allow you to perform your own conditional inspections on your own airplane. The conditional is the experimental version of an annual. Remember too, you cannot use the aircraft for any operations for financial gain.

Yup, I have been looking at experimentals, the Glasair I seems to fit my budget and mission the best of anything I've been able to find. Plus, outside of the annuals/conditionals, I would be able to do all of my own work on an experimental which would save a lot. SWMBO won't let me build a plane yet, have to buy something ready to fly, but there are plenty of used Glasairs for sale.

If you are building hours toward a career, my advice would be to not buy a plane at all. You would be better to start giving flight instruction. You will want to keep moving up, getting experience in different types... you may want to GET paid instead of paying to fly.

CFI is what I am working towards in the shorter term, I have 2 years left in my current enlistment and I might be able to get it by then, but if I have to stick it out for another 4 years I can.

Traveling is not a subject for a small budget. You will want something fast, Mooney, Bonanza, Cirrus, Cessna 210. If you have the budget for a twin it will open some possibilities. For serious cross country work you will NEED the best in avionics and that bill could easily run $40-60,000 or more. I looked at getting a plane for regular trips to Colorado from Indiana. I figured (IIRC) about 6 hours in a Mooney as opposed to 1.5 hours to Indy, an hour to get through security, 3 hours? on Frontier and 3 hours from Denver to our destination... better use of time but $1200 total for fuel as opposed to 2 round trip tix at $200 each.

Indeed, especially with fuel at $5-6+ a gallon, that's why no matter what else I find I keep coming back to the Glasair I, it will cruise around 150kts or so at 8gph with full fuel, a passenger, and 100lbs of baggage. A twin will probably never happen, 20+gph on my own dime, no thanks.

Although I have to admit the 150/152 is growing on me just because they are so cheap, I wouldn't be able to travel very far though.

Spinout007 wrote: Something to get back in the air on the cheap would be my only goal. Maybe like I said some grass strip hopping, find some where with a strip and a close by fishing hole.

That would be my retirement plan. But its not likely going to happen.