Parents, kids, and cars

Yeah, I guess it's important to note that I was pretty rebelious in HS, and a damned poor student, so I didn't deserve squat...especially not a car or a paid college education. I suppose a lot depends on the kid and your personal financial situation. That said, I still wouldn't buy a kid a car, even if said kid was the best on the planet. If I was financially able, and the kid worked his/her ass off in school, I can see helping with college.

Kids get out of school at ~3PM here. 15hrs a week (not at all unreasonable; I worked this much on Saturday/Sunday alone - still had time for homework, band practice, shows, girlfriend and hanging out w/friends.) at $7 / hr. (no income tax) X 52 weeks = $5,460...more than I've ever spent on a car, race cars included. Now, if kid decides to blow all that on pot, beer, girlfriend, whatever, then there's no money for a decent car. Big lesson learned.

i plan to do the 1:1 match, and i will have veto power on the choice of cars, and i will be a stickler for routine maintenance, repairs as soon as a problem arises, and they will pay for fuel and help with insurance.

my parents provided each of us with our first beater, and helped us with gas money until we turned 18. dad was always there to turn wrenches, but we always had to pay for parts ourselves.

to answer what i think was the OP's question, some parents buy their kids a car so the kid can get themselves to wherever they have to go, and the parents get to have a little bit of their own lives back.

While in high school I had free use of the family car most any time. Of course this meant that every other week I had to get up an hour early to take my father and the neighbor to the train. Then come back home and take my non-driving mother to work and my brother and I to school. Then in the evening reverse the process.

When I started college (commuted 36 miles each way) my parents bought me a car. All expenses ( insurance, gas, repairs, etc) were my responsibility. I paid most of the expenses by taking on other students as paying riders which was very common back then. I had an evening job working in a machine shop but that money was used for the college tuition for the most part.

My older brother got nothing but he was in and out non serious trouble. More sneaking around than anything illegal. In his second year of college he took their college savings account which was in his name and bought a Probe. My parents learned quick. I was to take out student loans. If I graduated in four years in good standing they would pay off the loans. If I screwed up the loans were on me.

I saved from the time I was 13 until I was 16 (1999) and was under the impression I was going to pay for the car . Had about $3000 saved up and went to buy my first RX-7 GSL-SE for $2400. My dad said he would pay for the car then withdraw the money from my account. He never did withdraw and I quickly found out why. It was his car so he made the rules. I couldnt try the "forget you old man I am leaving with MY car". If I didnt have a 3.0 I wasnt allowed to drive except for work. I paid for all the insurance, repairs, gas, tickets etc. Occasionally they would pick up a tank of gas here and there. There were a lot of kids with new or newer cars. Plenty of BMWs, Mercedes, Acuras etc.

My little brother was bought a $3500 Jeep Grand Cherokee. They paid insurance, gas, repairs everything. Recently the truck got traded in for a new Mazda 3 under the C4C. They paid for that one as well but apparently he has to pay them back.

I think it has to do with safety, but not the hit-a-brick-wall kind of safety.

A few of my friend's parents have asked me what was I thinking choosing an older, not shiny car. They are genuinely scared that their kid will be broken down, alone, in a dark alley getting raped. They can't believe that I am okay with relying on something 20 years old, never mind confident that I've already fixed most of it. One of the Mom's even told her son this, while I was in the car: "Eric, if the car you get ever breaks down, just pull over, call dad, and don't get out. Don't talk to anybody if they try to help, either." Another time with somebody else, we were driving to school, and their check engine light came on. She instantly called her dad, who said that she should probably take the next exit, and go straight to his house. It took me 10 min. to convince both of them that it was fine, and that we could go to school.

I am going to buy my kids a car. Hold your boo's until the end.

I'm going to sell it to my kids like this. If you want a car, you get a job (same deal I got). I was never out of work more than a month when I was in high school. So I'll glad foot the bill, get my kids something good (but used, I'm thinking Civic) that I can be sure of. I'm not a pro when it comes to fixing cars. Fiddling with a toy car is fine. Fiddling with my kids car, will not be. So I'll buy them something 10 or so years old. They split the cost of insurance with me, and pay for the gas. I think its a little unfair to put the entire burden of ownership on them.

An observation:

In general "kids" who buy their own cars tend to take greater care of them. Too many parents hand their children keys to a car, and they treat the cars as such as they know mommy and daddy will just fix it.

My parents told me if I wanted a car I had to pay for it. So as a result I didn't get my first car until I was 21 as I didn't have any money. In the end I ended up buying my dad's Olds and had to pay him Blue Book for it. I paid for everything on that car and it was a total POS. So I saved up for a year and sold it to buy my 94 Accord.

Datsun1500 wrote:

The_Jed wrote: They will pay for insurance, registration, gas, maintenance and any upgrades they may desire.

Insurance can be a killer. The 1st year insurance for a 16 year old boy was a few grand. That was with all of the discounts possible (good grades, multi car, etc.) Once you have them attached to their own wheels it gets pricey. That was with no comp or collision too.

Can be a killer, but doesn't have to be (then again who knows what will happen to these costs in 13 years). Somehow, both Jed and myself managed to pull it off, partly by working our tails off and partly by driving cars that were 10+ years old and not in the greatest shape.

Tommy Suddard wrote: I think it has to do with safety, but not the hit-a-brick-wall kind of safety. A few of my friend's parents have asked me what was I thinking choosing an older, not shiny car. They are genuinely scared that their kid will be broken down, alone, in a dark alley getting raped. They can't believe that I am okay with relying on something 20 years old, never mind confident that I've already fixed most of it. One of the Mom's even told her son this, while I was in the car: "Eric, if the car you get ever breaks down, just pull over, call dad, and don't get out. Don't talk to anybody if they try to help, either." Another time with somebody else, we were driving to school, and their check engine light came on. She instantly called her dad, who said that she should probably take the next exit, and go straight to his house. It took me 10 min. to convince both of them that it was fine, and that we could go to school.

Great insight from a young mind.

Fear is a great motivator, err rather limiter. Parents make a lot of decisions out of fear and the unrealistic idea that they can keep their kids completely out of trouble.

So they buy them newer cars the kid's couldn't buy themselves hoping they won't break down in a dark alley, an auto tranny so they won't be "confused" and give them cellphones to call for help just in case.

Which effectively robs them of the sense of accomplishment in getting an old car running, steals the pride and caring of ownership, destroys the creative thinking of finding alternate means of cheap transportation, ruins the opportunity to develop better driving skills, and encourages the idea that it is more important to text someone or surf the internet right now than pay attention to their driving.

Fear is a bad parent.

My sons first car was a 86 T-bird. It was given to him with a blown engine. He got it towed home, found an engine in the paper for $150. I helped him pick up the engine, and change it. He drove it for three years and paid all the expenses on it. He had already wrecked (totaled) his moms mini van so I wouldn't pay for anything. I would help with repairs if asked, other than that it was all on him. He is next car was a $300 89 T-bird. Needed work, but decent car. His first one I claimed, and turned into a Lemons car. His third car was a Nissan Sentra. Bought and paid for by him. Totaled by a drunk illegal immigrant with no drivers license or insurance. He is now 21, and his last car I bought. It is a $1600 Ford Escort. The only reason I bought it is he was in a jamb and needed help. The deal was he would pay me back after the insurance settled. He had proven the ability to take care of cars including the Escort, so I gave it to him. All other expenses are paid by him. In my house you aren't given squat, everything is earned. Bank of Dad is closed unless you have proven the ability to take care your own and Dad's stuff and live by Dad's rules. My daughters first car will probably be a 89 Mazda 626 I got from Jensenman for two Mountain Dews. (Twice what he paid for it.) She will get to drive it after she helps me change the engine. Sweat equity is an acceptable investment. The car will be mine. I will pay insurance until she does something to make the rates go up or is out of school. Tickets or wrecks, Bank of Dad no longer pays your insurance and probably won't let you drive his cars. As far as she knows Bank of Dad isn't paying for school. She has been busting her butt and due to good grades has scholarships and grants to cover 95% of the costs. I will cover the rest as long as grades are good and she does what I require her to do. If my money is involved, I make all the rules. If they don't like the rules, they are free to do without my money. And yes they sometimes think I am an ass. When most of the kids around here are driving MB and BMWs to school, they are either walking or driving what ever junk I provide or they pay for. Responsibility learned at a young age lasts a lifetime. I don't coddle kids. Even the youngest gets to earn his privileges and he is 6. They know where the line is drawn and very seldom cross it. They also know the consequences when they do.

I plan on purchasing the kid a scooter. at 14 they can get a job, and until thier 16th birthday, whatever they have to put toward a car, I will match it.

I'm planning to pick up something used which needs a good bit of lovin' (hopefully a Miata) and the kiddo and I will share 'working on it' time. She will have to start saving her money because any $ I put into it will be due when it comes time for her to drive it. She's 12 now so she has some time.

If need be, I will co sign a loan for her to pay me back but she will have to make the montlies or suffer the consequences if she does not. If it came to that, rather than let the car go back to a bank or loan company I'd probably pay it off but then it goes into storage until she pays me back.

Harsh? Maybe. But she needs to learn TANSTAAFL (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch). I see no point in throwing a kid the keys to a new set of wheels just because they made it to age 16.

At the risk of starting a E36 M3storm, anybody remember the kid in Florida who splattered himself and his friends all over the place in a M5 his dad gave him? That won't happen around my house if I have any input.

By the way, one time over at the Jeep place this young girl shows up driving a 2000 Grand Cherokee (this was in 2006, IIRC). In really nice shape, around 80K miles, high end 4.0 car with all the bells and whistles except 4x4. She brought it in to get the oil changed and tires rotated and complained about having to pay for the maintenance the whole time. During all this, she said something that really stuck with me: 'I can't believe my parents gave me this old piece of crap'.

poopshovel wrote: Yeah, I guess it's important to note that I was pretty rebelious in HS, and a damned poor student, so I didn't deserve squat...especially not a car or a paid college education. I suppose a lot depends on the kid and your personal financial situation. That said, I still wouldn't buy a kid a car, even if said kid was the best on the planet. If I was financially able, and the kid worked his/her ass off in school, I can see helping with college. Kids get out of school at ~3PM here. 15hrs a week (not at all unreasonable; I worked this much on Saturday/Sunday alone - still had time for homework, band practice, shows, girlfriend and hanging out w/friends.) at $7 / hr. (no income tax) X 52 weeks = $5,460...more than I've ever spent on a car, race cars included. Now, if kid decides to blow all that on pot, beer, girlfriend, whatever, then there's no money for a decent car. Big lesson learned.

Good one here - The most I ever paid was $2500, and I earned enough on my 5.10 (or 4.10, can't remember) Burger King salary in 1998 to buy my Camaro, and support my other camaro race car addition. Any kid who says they can't possible earn enough money part time to buy a car themselves is playing too much video games - I didn't even work that many weekends.

Jensenman had a good point too, working on the car counts, depending on the kid.

I had a job after school when I was 15, gave my parents every single cent I made to help put dinner on the table. I couldn't afford insurance, much less my own car so I didn't bother getting my license. I moved out a few years later and still couldn't afford it so I ended up getting my license at 23 and bought my first truck a few years after that.

It's easy to appreciate the things in life that are hard to come by.

tuna55 wrote: Good one here - The most I ever paid was $2500, and I earned enough on my 5.10 (or 4.10, can't remember) Burger King salary in 1998 to buy my Camaro, and support my other camaro race car addition.

You guys kill me.

$5.10 per hour? My first job was $2 per hour, and I was THRILLED to get it. STILL paid for my own car within the first 6 months.

1971: Buy It Yourself.. My dad gave me options: 1~Bring home A and B grades and he'll buy me a decent car (of his choosing). 2~ continue with the C and D grades and buy your own car. Dad's a smart man, but couldn't change a spark plug if his life depended on it. I, OTOH, worked at a full service station after school, and had learned how to do the basics. I found a 1959 Rambler for $100, put a clutch and head gasket on it, and drove it about a year. A young girl in a week-old Corolla pulled out in front of me (she was just learning to drive a stick; sound familiar?). Her Toy was totalled. I drove my Rambler home, found a same-color non-running parts car (grille, sheet metal, bumper) for $20, and a new radiator.. fixed it all.. her insurance paid me about $300, which paid the original purchase price for the car, the repairs, with enough left over to buy a set of recaps, new battery, and set of seat covers! Great car, really, but not high on the cool meter.

1972: Go To The Bank.. I was ready for a more "modern" car, so I approached dad about a loan for my prefered car (1st gen fastback 289 4spd Mustang). He said he wasn't really in the loan business, but he knew someone who was. He took me to the bank, where I learned about loans, interest, etc. As it turned out, a high school kid on a gas station wage couldn't quite swing a 'Stang, but I ran across a very low mileage 1.6 Pinto for $1300 that would qualify. Good thing I didn't get the V8; I'd likely be dead now. I never could kill that Pinto, and the Kent would run side by side with every OHC 2.0 Pinto I ever faced.

1976: Hand-Me-Down/Trade-me-Up/Birthday Suprise.. My younger brother had been handed down a '63 Olds Holiday from grandpa, while dad went through a mid life crisis and bought a red Fiat Spider, which momma rode in one time and refused to get back in again. The Fiat mostly sat; the Olds blew the Rocket 8. On my birthday, dad said if I would give my Pinto to my brother, I could have the Fiat. Drove it a year before smashing it into a tree. I still miss that car..

1977: First Really New Car.. Took the insurance check from the totalled Fiat to the Toyota dealer, bought a 1978 1200 Corolla right off the truck. $2851. Actually got change back. Drove it for 16 years, during college in Milledgeville and Atlanta, never did much but keep oil and gas in it. Finally sold it to a neighborhood kid for a dollar. Talked to him about a year ago.. car is still running.

1993: Inheritance/Insurance.. My grandmother in Norfolk passed away, leaving $1000 each to her grandkids, and all her other stuff to my mother and my aunt. Included in that was a very low mileage 1975 Duster, which I ended up with, and still have. I bought a 1982 Chevy van for work with the $1000. It had a ugly dent on the left front fender/bumper that didn't affect the driving, so I didn't fix it. Not long after, an older lady ran into that same corner, and it looked like her car had done the damage. Her insurance paid me $973, (effectively paying for the van). That van has paid for itself MANY times over! Had to replace much of the wiring harness after an engine bay fire, a couple of starters and batteries; 250 six is a hard engine to kill!

2003: Tax Windfall !.. Finally making a little money running a locksmithe shop downtown. My accountant has goofed up the withholding on my income tax (I'm not used to getting much back), and all of a sudden I get a check from Uncle for $3700. A car lot on the next block has a gawd-awful green Neon on the lot, and it's been sitting there a few months now. I've always wanted a Neon, and I figured this was my chance. He wanted $4300 for it, but I talked him down to $3700 since it just wasn't selling. I figured I could always repaint it, then I learned it was the rare NYG color, and fell in love with it, despite myself. I got a vanity tag that reads NYG95 (GA plate), rebuilt it from stem to stern, and the rest is history..

2007: Buying A Car By Accident/Don't Ebay While Buzzed.. While drinking suds and cruising eBay for stuff one night, I ran across an NYG Sport sedan near Atlanta. I just know this car is gonna go for $1500 or more, and don't really need it, but just so I can say, "yeah, I bid on it.", I bid a grand, and kinda forget about it. A couple days later, I get an eMail. I've won it for $943! Damn. Looks good sitting next to the Coupe though! Got another vanity plate; this one says NYGTWO (next one will be NYGTOO).

2007: Insurance/Sympathy Upgrade.. When a bunch of tornadoes came through town on Mother's Day, a lot of our rental houses had tree damage that I would be in charge of clearing up. Dad felt sorry for me, because he knew it was going to be a lot of hot work, and my old '82 never had A/C. We got a good bit of insurance money, and dad decided I should have a nicer, more modern work van with air. I didn't argue, since the old Chevy had a quarter million miles on it by this time. Still runs, though!

SVreX wrote:

tuna55 wrote: Good one here - The most I ever paid was $2500, and I earned enough on my 5.10 (or 4.10, can't remember) Burger King salary in 1998 to buy my Camaro, and support my other camaro race car addition.

You guys kill me. $5.10 per hour? My first job was $2 per hour, and I was THRILLED to get it. STILL paid for my own car within the first 6 months.

Hah. My first job (not counting paper routes and mowing grass) was at the prevailing minimum wage which at the time was the princely sum of $1.65 an hour. Flipping burgers at Dairy Queen. I rode my ten speed to and from work rain or shine uphill both ways . The next job was flipping burgers at Burger King for the New and Improved minimum wage of $1.90 an hour. By then I had the 1965 Falcon I'd bought with the money I saved from the DQ job. It was paid for, too, all $225.00 of it. I think the annual insurance premium for liability only cost more than the car.

I get those Social Insecurity statements every so often; in 1974 I made $855 in taxable income.

One of the greatest joys of being a parent is embarrasing your children, what better way to do this then by buying them an absolute pile of crap to drive around in?

EastCoastMojo wrote: It's easy to appreciate the things in life that are hard to come by.

QFT! Can we somehow program that into our future kids? Some sort of non erasable memory implant?

autoxrs wrote:

EastCoastMojo wrote: It's easy to appreciate the things in life that are hard to come by.

QFT! Can we somehow program that into our future kids? Some sort of non erasable memory implant?

Thomas Paine wrote:

"That which is aquired too easily, is esteemed too lightly."

(He was speaking of freedom, but I thought the idea fit, just the same).

Don't get you kid a car that they will appreciate. Get them something that will be social suicide for them to be seen driving. The more they hate it the better.

That way they have motivation to get a JOB and buy their own car.

And don't get me started on the overly safety conscience ninnies that Tommy was referring to. There is a whole class of people out there who at great cost to themselves blow the potential risks way out of proportion to reality.

I have seen teens fan the flames of these irrational fears to earn an "upgrade" in the car that their parents were picking out for them.

Capt Slow wrote: I have seen teens fan the flames of these irrational fears to earn an "upgrade" in the car that their parents were picking out for them.

Off topic here, but has anyone read Studs Terkel's book working? I think that was the name. He interviews a car salesman, and the guy says that its easy to get parents to upgrade.
Something to the effect of this: "Look, the V6 will go 100MPH, might as well get the V8. Don't get the manual, get the auto, its safer..." obviously all in the name of getting more money.

Got my license at 17, but didn't buy my first car until I turned 22 as it was easier and cheaper to go to school with public transportation. I got to borrow the car once in a while, but my parents paid for the insurance. I took a year off from school, worked my ass off and bought myself a $1700 Subaru Impreza wagon and started paying for insurance on my own. It's been that way ever since... It has definitely made me realize how much of a privilege it is to own a car.

ncjay wrote: In my high school days, about 98% of the people had to buy thier own cars. I worked, saved money, picked out and bought my own cars. Same goes for just about everyone I knew. These days it seems many parents feel obligated to buy cars, many times a new one, for their children.

I graduated high school in 1982, from a pretty well-off school. The situation varied a bit but very few of us were required to buy our own cars, though some did. On the flip side, I think hardly any of us got new cars, either. I remember a lot of modest family-car hand-me-downs in the lot. There were a few new-money types that got given more car than they should have been, but that was a rare exception.

I was given access to our family cars when I got my license and given ownership my mother's old '67 LeMans during my senior year. I was the last of 4 kids and my father had provided us each with a well-used but refurbished car that we each helped fix up.

With my own daughters of teenage years, I've provided my elder (age 17) with 2 cars. I never really considered a new car, on general principle. The first was a very very cheap 11-year-old base Impreza wagon with over 100k on it. She helped me replace the CV boots and change the oil. I considered it disposable and when it got bent I was not too upset. It was fixable but not worth fixing. I gave her a few months of walking and bumming rides to bring the lesson home a little, but I have since bought her a 7-year-old, 70k mile Impreza wagon. She's helped on the oil change and will have to help any other work done to it. She's responsible for keeping it clean.

The second Subie was still not too expensive, but enough that it is not considered disposable. It is young enough that it will last her 10 years at least with maintenance, and I've made it clear that her next car is all on her. She knows I only replaced the first one because it was an honest accident and definitely not the result of shenanigans or bad driving. If I thought for a minute she had been doing something she shouldn't, or if she had been too cavalier about the incident, she wouldn't have gotten a replacement.

The younger is due to get her license in about 2.5 years, about the time that my wife's 2004 TSX may be considered for replacement. However, even if we do replace the TSX at that time, I won't give it to my daughter; it will still be too valuable and too nice. I will sell it and use a portion of the proceeds to buy her something slower, simpler, cheaper, and older.

Hmmm...

This is something I've started (just barely) to think about for my daughters (6 and 9).

My father drove company cars. He wanted something with a bed to use when we needed a truck. He decided to get "the family" an '80 El Camino. It would be my primary driver, but he would be the primary driver for insurance purposes (since his job had a car for him...this worked out cost effectively).

This was NOT a cool car, but I appreciated it. I learned about maintenance, and respected my folks' boundaries (after a lesson or two learned the hard way). If I had a date or needed to go out of town for whatever reason, I typically could drive my mother's car. That el camino filtered down to my brother. I'd come home for Christmas break and dad would ask me to replace the waterpump or rebuild the carburetor. I did it gladly.

For my kids...I'm pretty sure I'll source their first car. That's only because I'm fairly adept at finding smokin' deals on cars that need more labor than they're worth. So...the girls will probably get to learn the sweat equity method of auto ownership.

I think their educational performance will probably play into it for me as well. As and Bs...you GET to drive a car. If not at that level...forget about it. You don't need to go anywhere. You don't need to work...you need to study.

We'll figure out who owns and pays for the car as we get closer, I suppose.

I don't know if driving will be as important to my kids as it is/was to me. I rode my bicycle across town to get my learner's permit the day the law went into effect that you could get it at 15 1/2. I was MOTIVATED to drive. And drive I did...

Clem