Like a lot of other people have said, something between 2 and 3. I lived option 3, and honestly, it was hard and if I didn't have a lot of ease in school, I probably would not have finished. I would avoid option 1. I remember the kids that got their way entirely paid for by mommy and daddy, and they were almost always the immature, whiny, spoil brats that get their diploma and think the world owes them. And it's not surprising because at that age, most kids don't have the maturity to appreciate the great gift that a paid education is.

The next question is, are you sure you want to send your kids to college? With the ever increasing cost of tuition, and the value of a diploma decreasing on the job market, I wounder if it's worth it now a days.

That's a very valid question that definitely needs to be asked. My daughter wants to be a veterenarian, so there's not much way to do that without college. OTOH, if she were interested in, say, computer programming that changes so fast that a 4 year degree would probably not be worthwhile.

I find it amusing that the people (adults) who are having kids seem to think they have any idea what tuition is like nowadays (or what it will be like in 20 years when their kids graduate highschool). Seriously, the one chart posted says it all.

If I were to ever have kids, $200/month into a education account (for each one) for them starting when they are born. Invested at 5% over 20 years, that works out to $83k. Even in 2030, that SHOULD be enough money for them to go to a University in Canada and have their tuition paid for in anything besides practicing medicine. It's currently $10k per year tuition for the best engineering degree you can get up north here. No reason they can't earn $10k net (at least) in 4 months of summer like I did. There is another $40k over a 4 year degree. Plus they can live at home (I live in a city with one of the more well known major universities up here).

It's funny how people look at this. Everyone says that the most important time of your life financially is when you are starting out, and yet parents here seem willing to cripple their kids to do... something? Teach them something? Teach them what? Lifes not fair, you better work 80 hours a week at school/studying/homework and then have a part time job while you are at it, rack up tens of thousands of dollars in debt that will be hard to repay in less than 10 years out of school because they are getting paid diddly out of school for 5+ years?

I was lucky, my education (recognized Canada wide, essentially an equivalent to your associates engineering degree) was only $5k per year including books. Even then, all my initial scholarship money went towards my first year of an engineering degree which I withdrew from. But tuition wasn't the killer, living expenses was, as I didn't have the option to live with my parents except during the summer.

My point is, some of you are out to lunch. And yes, I honestly EXPECT any parent who thinks their child is going to go to post secondary to help with the costs. You know how rich people get rich? Typically from money handed down. The way to help your child succeed (since you don't have any real volume of money to hand down) is to give them a lift with education. Incredibly few people are self-made 100% on their own (even though 'merica, berkeley yea would like to think otherwise).

Le sigh. The shrimp are flying.

HiTempguy wrote: It's funny how people look at this. Everyone says that the most important time of your life financially is when you are starting out, and yet parents here seem willing to cripple their kids to do... something? Teach them something? Teach them what? Lifes not fair, you better work 80 hours a week at school/studying/homework and then have a part time job while you are at it, rack up tens of thousands of dollars in debt that will be hard to repay in less than 10 years out of school because they are getting paid diddly out of school for 5+ years?

A huge +1 to this. I'll repost what I said in my earlier post:

mtn wrote: And before anyone says student loans, would you ever recommend that an 18 year old without an education and without a career take on a mortgage, or take out a loan for a new Lexus?

fanfoy wrote: The next question is, are you sure you want to send your kids to college? With the ever increasing cost of tuition, and the value of a diploma decreasing on the job market, I wounder if it's worth it now a days.

In one way I agree that value of a diploma is decreasing in that more and more people have them but try getting a decent paying job without some post-high school education (whether that is trade school or college).

What 93EXCivic said above is very true. I got mine paid for but consider I earned it. 20 years in the military GI Bill. Took some classes while active duty but not focused on a major. Retired and focused on a major (basically completing a degree), tried full-time but got tired of starving and got a job and went to school half-time till degree.

For my kids, I couldn't afford to save much when they were younger but fall in Cat 2 mainly. I think they out to work for a certain amount of it, will mean more to them. Oldest daughter was top of her class and could have had a free ride but chose the hard way. Youngest is also doing it the hard way. For a couple years both were in college together and they are 4 years apart, 5 grade level apart. Youngest is still going. I pay their tuition to the local college and make up any difference in other expenses that they can't pay for. Both work. Oldest is done, has a good job and working on her Masters on her own. And has actually thanked me for the way she got her degree, since she had to work for it it means more to her. Youngest is now seeing that she needs the paper to get a self-supporting job. Especially around where we live. I actually know rocket scientists.

My parents did some math and figured I'd need a bit of help. They offered to pay $300/month towards my education while I was in school, which basically covered my rent at the time. They were hoping I wouldn't have to take a job during the school year so I could focus on my studies. Everything else was on me.

I don't drink (that saved a bunch of money) and I lived frugally (didn't have a car until 3rd year, and even then it stayed parked most of the time and I ate a lot of pasta) and got some really good summer jobs. No extraordinary measures. I graduated without any debt although my bank account was usually in the double digits at the end of each school year.

Having a stake in the game and a fixed level of assistance worked out really well. I was responsible for most of my costs, and that made me work a lot harder because I wasn't gonna pay all that money for nothing!

2

Do not do #1 - as pointed out earlier - most people I knew like that were the least motivated lazy arses.

They need some skin in the game.

No kids here, but I have a niece (eventually she will inherit a respectable chunk of stuff from us) - her parents aren't going to be able to swing much, if anything, for her on the college front. Mrs. Oldtin and I will help her have access to a good education.

Mine is 4 years old, and I'm already building a 529 plan for him in hope he at least has the same sort of opportunities as his old man. I went to a small private college, on the #2 plan, and I'm still paying for my half of that at 35 years old. I hate to say I regret it, because my experience at that college made me who I am today, but in hindsight, I don't know that the value was really there. I mean, the money I and my parents spent on my undergraduate degree could have bought a decent starter home outright.

Unfortunately, I don't think mine will be going to my alma mater unless he gets some serious scholarship because even since I have graduated the tuition is up 2X. I can see a lot of value in taking a year or so off between high school and college to live in the real world, find yourself, and learn to really make your own decisions and having to live with your decisions. The risk there is that he'll land a job that is 'good enough' and never find the ambition to further himself. But there are worse outcomes. He could spend $150k on a liberal arts degree, or as I like to call it "Pre-Starbucks".

sporqster said: I can see a lot of value in taking a year or so off between high school and college to live in the real world, find yourself, and learn to really make your own decisions and having to live with your decisions. The risk there is that he'll land a job that is 'good enough' and never find the ambition to further himself. But there are worse outcomes. He could spend $150k on a liberal arts degree, or as I like to call it "Pre-Starbucks".

Very true. My sister started three different programs before she decided to go backpacking in Europe to know herself. She came back a much more mature person. Got a degree which she is still using today (8 years later).

I also took a year off between high school and university. I think it makes a massive difference.

I think almost every one of my peers changed their major in university. I came out with what I expected to, but then took a left turn immediately upon graduation and before going to teacher's college. It's going to happen as you mature and are exposed to more things, so it should be expected. This was in a group of people that were all a year older than you'd see now thanks to Ontario's extra year of high school at the time.

I don't use my degree in my job. Well, not the completed one. But I don't regret getting the education I did, it was a bit of a twisty path to get here and university was part of that. You learn a lot more than simple facts in school. You learn how to learn.

I would say closest to #2. But that is because that is how I got through college, and think it worked pretty well for me. Family covered most of my tuition, but I took care of all my room, board, travel (unless they wanted to fly me out to visit them), and other expenses. Result was me getting out of college debt free, and that is a huge boon for me.

They need to have some skin in the game. The costs of education these days are crazy difficult for a kid to handle on their own. Absolutely do not put yourself into a difficult situation for the sake of your kid. If they want to go to a state school you can afford, great. If they want to go to a private school you can't, good luck. Interest free loans from family are also a solid idea.

I also recommend kicking them out of the house for at least one year. Make them learn some independence.

Unless the kid is really really highly motivated towards a particular field, I can not recommend community college more. Costs are lower during a time when they're still figuring out what they need to do. They have more opportunities on where they can enroll to finish college when they're done. Top it off, I had better instruction for general ed. classes as my community college than I got at four year universities I went to. Community colleges focus on general ed. Teachers at 4-year universities focus on the higher classes in their major subject.

Correction, in South Carolina the lottery pays for all of tuition for a technical college, provided that you maintain a cumulative 3.0 or better GPA. For full-time in state university students you get $5000.00/yr, with the same GPA restrictions. If you lose your scholarship, you lose it for the year eg: less than 3.0 freshman year you lose it for all of your sophomore year or until you get it above a 3.0. Tidbit on the lottery; since day 1 the scholarship amount has been $5000.00/yr. However, tuition has more than doubled in the same time. So even if you get the $5000.00, you are still paying more than before the lottery. If you don't qualify you are hosed. I have 3 kids in college right now so i am going to have to help them pay back loans. They need to be invested in their education. Just my 2c worth.

Beer Baron wrote: Unless the kid is really really highly motivated towards a particular field, I can not recommend community college more. Costs are lower during a time when they're still figuring out what they need to do. They have more opportunities on where they can enroll to finish college when they're done. Top it off, I had better instruction for general ed. classes as my community college than I got at four year universities I went to. Community colleges focus on general ed. Teachers at 4-year universities focus on the higher classes in their major subject.

I did both. A 4-year university degree that taught me a lot about applying myself, how to compete in a hugely competitive field and pushed my boundaries of learning. I also took a community college course that gave me some very specific skills for a specific job and led directly to my first real job as the instructor hired me halfway through the course

But if I'd only gone to the college, I wouldn't have been able to adapt as the field changed - and it did. Heck, everything I learned there is now obsolete. I got better quality teachers in university as well. But if I'd stuck with my university degree, I'd probably not have done well on getting a job.

It's like the difference between learning how engines work and learning how to read a troubleshooting manual. The latter will solve the problem in front of you, the former will allow you to understand it and others.

4 Sons

1, that's been my plan, since they were born.

peabodysc wrote: Correction, in South Carolina the lottery pays for all of tuition for a technical college, provided that you maintain a cumulative 3.0 or better GPA. For full-time in state university students you get $5000.00/yr, with the same GPA restrictions. If you lose your scholarship, you lose it for the year eg: less than 3.0 freshman year you lose it for all of your sophomore year or until you get it above a 3.0. Tidbit on the lottery; since day 1 the scholarship amount has been $5000.00/yr. However, tuition has more than doubled in the same time. So even if you get the $5000.00, you are still paying more than before the lottery. If you don't qualify you are hosed. I have 3 kids in college right now so i am going to have to help them pay back loans. They need to be invested in their education. Just my 2c worth.

Yeah. It was really odd how as soon as the lottery got passed tuition at all the state colleges doubled.

I'm helping my daughter as much as I can but she has to buy in, too. It's the same reason she has to pay me back for her car; she needs ownership not just on paper but through sweat.

mtn wrote:

HiTempguy wrote: It's funny how people look at this. Everyone says that the most important time of your life financially is when you are starting out, and yet parents here seem willing to cripple their kids to do... something? Teach them something? Teach them what? Lifes not fair, you better work 80 hours a week at school/studying/homework and then have a part time job while you are at it, rack up tens of thousands of dollars in debt that will be hard to repay in less than 10 years out of school because they are getting paid diddly out of school for 5+ years?

A huge +1 to this. I'll repost what I said in my earlier post:

mtn wrote: And before anyone says student loans, would you ever recommend that an 18 year old without an education and without a career take on a mortgage, or take out a loan for a new Lexus?

I think I should not need to point out the difference between a car an an education? One of these is not like the other.

As far as 80+ hours a week and life not being fair, well welcome to the real world. I work an average of 65 hours a week and nobody gave me a berkeleyin thing.

My ex and I discussed this before we had kids. I watched all of her friends on the 8 year bachelors program in college because mom and dad were willing to pay so they had no motivation to get out into the real world.

So before we had a kid she went into it understanding I felt no obligation to pay for it. When we divorced she willingly allowed that to be stipulated in the divorce decree because it would have been that way if we stayed married.

My daughter starts college next year. So far she's been offered full ride academics from 2 schools, she is a national merit scholar finalist. She was in a large way motivated her entire life by knowing she had to work for it. She is for good or bad, set on going to a school which has not offered a full ride and costs 50k a year. She's working for every scholarship and financial aid package she can get.

At the end of the day, I'll pay, I love my kid and she's proven she's earned it and will continue to earn it. If she had been more like me I'd stick to my guns and not offer help. But noone paid for me to go to school either.

In reply to Curmudgeon: I did the same with all 3 of mine. The girls I paid half on the first car. With my son I paid for the car because he's been taking college classes in high school for 3 years. Check out Charter schools.

Curmudgeon wrote: I think I should not need to point out the difference between a car an an education? One of these is not like the other. As far as 80+ hours a week and life not being fair, well welcome to the real world. I work an average of 65 hours a week and nobody gave me a berkeleyin thing.

First of all, many educations probably have less value than a car, which you at least get something out of. The math does not work out (especially in the US) spending $100k (and very restricted income for 4+ years of your adult life) on an education that will never earn you more than $100k/year.

Second, rather than have a child better themselves and live a (hopefully) better lifestyle than you, you'd rather see them live in mediocrity (generalization) just because you had to?

I might not always get along with my parents, but at least they aren't that jaded by life that they wanted me to go through what they did when they were younger! Life can actually be very fair, especially with a little help. The difference that $100/month from when a kid is born to when they enter post secondary could (literally) mean a fairly large change in their lives. Money is how you help your kids no matter how you look at it, teaching them good manners or how to be responsible for themselves doesn't actually get you very far in life beyond working said 65 hours a week and earning OK money (unless you get it just right).

Option 5 for my Son:

• JOIN THE MILITARY! THEY'LL PAY FOR IT!

HiTempguy wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: I think I should not need to point out the difference between a car an an education? One of these is not like the other. As far as 80+ hours a week and life not being fair, well welcome to the real world. I work an average of 65 hours a week and nobody gave me a berkeleyin thing.

First of all, many educations probably have less value than a car, which you at least get something out of. The math does not work out (especially in the US) spending $100k (and very restricted income for 4+ years of your adult life) on an education that will never earn you more than $100k/year. Second, rather than have a child better themselves and live a (hopefully) better lifestyle than you, you'd rather see them live in mediocrity (generalization) just because you had to? I might not always get along with my parents, but at least they aren't that jaded by life that they wanted me to go through what they did when they were younger! Life can actually be very fair, especially with a little help. The difference that $100/month from when a kid is born to when they enter post secondary could (literally) mean a fairly large change in their lives. Money is how you help your kids no matter how you look at it, teaching them good manners or how to be responsible for themselves doesn't actually get you very far in life beyond working said 65 hours a week and earning OK money (unless you get it just right).

My preparations for my daughter's college are none of your business, so we won't go there.

The true job of a parent (which you obviously know nothing about) is to prepare their child or children for real life. That will take her much further than $100 a week ever would.

She will, upon entering the real world, be prepared to work for what she needs and wants. She will not be trapped by the entitlement mentality and when (not if) I croak, she will be prepared to go on with her life without me.

When (not if) life throws her a curve because hell NO life is not fair and I am not there to help, what I have imparted to her (which can be summed up as the world does not owe her a living) will hopefully help her deal with it.

Curmudgeon wrote: She will, upon entering the real world, be prepared to work for what she needs and wants. She will not be trapped by the entitlement mentality and when (not if) I croak, she will be prepared to go on with her life without me.

There is an enormous difference in giving a kid an entitlement mentality (I see it with one of my best friends) and helping your child out at a time it will really matter.

FWIW, my parents probably wouldn't have paid a dime if I didn't work my ass off. But because I did, they paid for everything I couldn't.