PING: The GRM Forza crowd..

64chrysler300 wrote: all at Road America with a baby sleeping on my lap (that's my racing excuse for today LOL!

That's the only time I get to play Forza, too!

barrowcadbury wrote: Seems like we would be able to use the full Race suspension if it weren't for the part in bold (copied from the GCR): b. Springs and Shock Absorbers 1. Shock absorbers may be replaced provided that the replacements (a) attach to the original mounting points, and (b) are of a non-remote-reservoir design.

Weird thing in IT back then (unsure of the current rules), cars with struts could legally build an ersatz coilover. The rules were written to say the threads for the bottom spring perch couldn't be welded directly to the strut housing. You took the stock strut housing, welded a ring at the bottom, slid a threaded piece (companies like Ground Control made them) over the stock housing to sit on the ring. I'd love to have that kind of adjustablity, but it would be too much of a PITA in Forza to say some cars can have it, and others can't. OTOH, I've discovered that adding full race sway bars don't add much PI in Forza, so that's definitely in!

It's another real world vs. virtual situation. IT cars had suspensions that could be tuned, but replicating them in Forza makes cars with lap times much faster than the real ones. I guess I'm trying to "split the difference"?

Abandoning the project. Seems like everyone wants to "play Forza", instead of pretending they're racing real cars..apologies to everyone for wasting your time.

What happened mang?

BobOfTheFuture wrote: What happened mang?

+1

racerfink wrote:

BobOfTheFuture wrote: What happened mang?

+1

+2

Yeah, what happend? Was kinda cool what you were putting together!

??? I had a blast running Bob's Escort with you guys the other night.

Combo of trying to police the thing (I wish you could fine-tune the allowed HP in a lobby better, 50hp is a big difference in these cars) and somebody giving me the Dale Sr. treatment at T3 Road Atlanta on the 1st lap (even though he could have smoked me on the backstraight). My original idea was kind of a tribute to small displacement racing, but folks coming in the lobby were just building to the restrictions & abandoning the concept. Lotza rockets with no grip (only V8 in the real ITS is a TR-8, and we talked about the turbos a few days back), it absolutely ruined the balance. I got frustrated (and that much to drink probably didn't help ).

Seeing some replies here, I'm having second thoughts..after all, the guy that hit me was from a different club. Maybe I'll just make the races private, and only invite GRM folks?

I'd say to keep at it, I enjoyed racing last night.

If the cars are 5-8 secs faster when built to the PI spec using the GCR allowable mods, what would happen if we bumped down the PI limit?

Brotus7 wrote: I'd say to keep at it, I enjoyed racing last night. If the cars are 5-8 secs faster when built to the PI spec using the GCR allowable mods, what would happen if we bumped down the PI limit?

That's kind of the problem. If you lower the PI, it kind of goes "off the map" in Forza. If we built to GCR legal suspension mods, they'd all have more grip than power. If we built to GCR legal engine mods, they'd have more power than grip. They wouldn't "feel" like IT cars anymore. I think I was pretty successful with the ITC cars (at E250, the PI's a lot less than a full-tilt E car).

Problem with the ITS class is that by my lap time research, it's a "straight up" C425. That's why it's so difficult to enforce, building an (by my research, lap-time accurate) ITS car is pretty much dead-equal with the Forza PI system. I tried restricting the HP allowance, but that didn't do the trick. I'm thinking more and more about just making the lobby "private" and just not inviting anyone other than Team GRM folks. No one else seems to even want to get with the idea, they just want to get their xBox Live stats up.

One thing I noticed, Bob's Escort fast, but pretty loose until the tires get some heat. It makes for an interesting first few laps.

RF ran away and hid from us on the first few races in the VW. At Road Atl, I was struggling to stay in the front RF and VW. The extra hp did help, but I had to drive mistake free laps (something I'm good at doing ).

Xbox stats . . . what's that

The other night running ITS, the Corvair I had I though was pretty close to "FGC legal"....everybody ran away from me LOL! Then I ran the Alpha convertable thingy which was full tilt C425....everybody ran off and hid from me

Then FGC gifted me a GTV-6 that he built and it rocked. As a driver though, I still sucked But, my lap times were on par and I was able to keep up....I even passed him once! (okay, so he blew a corner, point is, I was close enough to actually get by)

Anyway, I think the system works, but only if all hands on track obey the spirit of the contest. Limiting the lobby to those who can play by the rules etc.

I liked the fuel, tires and damage on deal....except when I ended up shiney side down (fraking curbs ) but hey, that's racin right?

Oh yeah, your Xbox stats still go up, I got a few new badges, leveled up and got manufacurer points all while in FGC's lobby.

I've been enjoying the virtual IT stuff... I actually like the classes that don't align with Forza as it gives me something different to build to and I think it keeps the gamers out.

My only complaint is that there's a too much talking between races. I think there was one lobby we sat in for 10 or 15 minutes with everyone ready before we finally started the race.

This issue here Corrado, Which you touched on, Is that Forza simply does not have its feet planted with the slower classes. They game tries to keep the kiddies interested.

I think we may have to simplify some of the rules, I know you want to stick with the proper SCCA rulesets but, like you said yourself, That would allow some overly-fast cars.

I belive we should try something like this, which is similar to what you did but tweaked a bit:

What if you set a ruleset for forza with a base PI, and Max Horse/TQ number. Then mandated that you use the maximum weight reduction to soak up some of that PI. That also goes for the Sport tires and Id mandate cages. Again, Soaking up PI is the point. Then, mandate no internal engine mods/swaps/boost. You said the racing suspension package adds too much, so thats out as well.

This is pretty close to how I was building the cars for your races anyhow, and It might keep the races feeling realistic (IE like racecars, not the Saturn V rocket strapped to a coal cart thing that makes a car in Forza fast)

Then boot the hell out of the shiny happy people that cause problems.

Edit- Another possibility is to mandate completely stock engines with the above rulesets. That would keep it from being a situation where everybody picks the lightest car and adds horses up to the limit.

The problem is in it being a public lobby. Anybody can join, and they don't have to have any idea what GRM or SCCA or Improved Touring is to join the lobby. Most of them just probably joined by hitting "join now" and being placed in our lobby without having seen what it was about. And if they've joined for the first time, there's no way for them to have a car in their garage that meets the intent of the lobby they've stumbled into. They would have to be a member of tgrm to use any of the club garage cars, so that makes things difficult as well.

Somebody said the other night, that most "outsiders" tend to flee screaming when they find out there's no magic yellow stripe painted on the track telling them where to brake and turn, also "there's damage? , My tires wear out? "

Make the race 10 laps and they'll hit the exit back to the public demo derby fest quick. I've followed a few Banzi bozo's through the green hell and there's no way they would even finish if damage was on. The first turn would weed out most of 'em right off the bat.

Heck, full damage would weed out 90% of the field in most public lobbies.....just snooze at the start, then tip toe through the carnage.

Thanks for the good words, everyone! I didn't realize anyone else was stoked about it.

StrikeZ (re: Racerfink) Yeah, that's what he does. He still races IRL. IIRC, he raced with Eric Foss online in F3. The man is really that quick.

Bob, you were the 1st guy (well, RF got it, but he'd already seen/participated in a virtual Spec Miata series in F3) who seemed to "get it" when I started spouting the "rules". We're gonna talk some more about it when it's time to do ITB. Doing the middle classes is going to take some work. After all, if an ITC car is a castrated E, and an ITS car is a full C, then doing the classes inbetween is going to be even smaller slices of the Forza pie.

64chrysler, you may have a good point about the length of the races. Weird thing: I seem to have been setting my tire pressures for a race that long, even though I didn't make the races that long.

I've been trying to set the races to 12mi. or so, just to keep them short enough to interest other people. I try to think in distance, rather than number of laps..but you are right. Make the thing long enough, and the kiddies will quit halfway through (especially with damage on, which I already do).

Racerfink..yeah, perhaps my lobby should be a private one for our own club.

RevDex: yeah we talk a lot. But half of that is that folks have to check on the kids, or addicts like me having to go outside for a smoke. Half of my problem driving in the races is that I drink enough to try to have a conversation with someone during the race!

64chrysler300 wrote: Somebody said the other night, that most "outsiders" tend to flee screaming when they find out there's no magic yellow stripe painted on the track telling them where to brake and turn, also "there's damage? , My tires wear out? " Make the race 10 laps and they'll hit the exit back to the public demo derby fest quick. I've followed a few Banzi bozo's through the green hell and there's no way they would even finish if damage was on. The first turn would weed out most of 'em right off the bat. Heck, full damage would weed out 90% of the field in most public lobbies.....just snooze at the start, then tip toe through the carnage.

That sounds exactly like gt5. 9 times out of 10 doing stuff like that weeds out the idjits, but then you get #10 who just complains and demands you turn stuff back on.

On the last bit, there are enough people out there who will do their damndest to wreck everyone if they have serious crippling damage that sitting back and waiting wont work. First blind corner and WOW, someone parked a junker right at the exit.

Grizz wrote:

64chrysler300 wrote: Somebody said the other night, that most "outsiders" tend to flee screaming when they find out there's no magic yellow stripe painted on the track telling them where to brake and turn, also "there's damage? , My tires wear out? " Make the race 10 laps and they'll hit the exit back to the public demo derby fest quick. I've followed a few Banzi bozo's through the green hell and there's no way they would even finish if damage was on. The first turn would weed out most of 'em right off the bat. Heck, full damage would weed out 90% of the field in most public lobbies.....just snooze at the start, then tip toe through the carnage.

That sounds exactly like gt5. 9 times out of 10 doing stuff like that weeds out the idjits, but then you get #10 who just complains and demands you turn stuff back on. On the last bit, there are enough people out there who will do their damndest to wreck everyone if they have serious crippling damage that sitting back and waiting wont work. First blind corner and WOW, someone parked a junker right at the exit.

I could have sworn I had found a way to twist the menus in 2 where damage was on for everyone, but head-on collisions were turned off (to keep the head-on collision crybabies from screwing up everyone else's race). Or maybe we just all had an agreement to turn collision on individually and leave it off in the lobby.

Aside to 64chrysler: Nice car.

Thanks, It's actually pretty fast too! The driver still needs work though

After you guys bailed on me last night (wimps...who needs sleep anyway I did a two lapper at the "Ring". Full damage and no magic line. You should'a heard the crying! I was the only one left half way through the first lap LOL!

Went on to Road America, same deal only no quitters this time. Boy were my fingers tired after 5 laps of dodging ballistic oxcarts.

Built an ITC Corvair this morning E250 per FGC's rules. Sport springs, swaybars, brakes. Stock tires on 14" rims. Stock trans w/3:91 gears. No aero. 3:04 dirty at Road America. I can do better though, that was only two laps and I had to leave for work (racers excuse #8749837209487 ). I have a Fiat 131 and a Pinto in the works as well.

That was one helluva race the other night. Get a tune on that fairlady and I'll likely see just your tail lights LOL! the rest of you guys missed a great session!

I'm really digging the slower classes....much more technical racing than the foot to the wood faster classes in Forza (S & higher). Even A class is a bit much sometimes.

64, Whats your Gamertag?

In reply to BobOfTheFuture: Roadracedart. I think I have you friended already.