please don't burn down my city too

yupididit wrote: From the time the cop arrived and shot the kid was 2 seconds. I've given afghans more time to berkeley it up for themselves when I give them commands. The ROE for encountering young black kids vs actual terrorist and enemies is pretty E36 M3ty to me.

Cool... When you are showing up because multiple people have called 911 and reported the kid acting crazy with a gun... and he begins to draw on you..

How many questions are you going to ask?

Maybe we should require the po po allow them to fire at least a couple times just to make sure they are really serious

Yeah you're right. I'm sure a 12yr old can draw his pistol and hip fire one of those popo's way before they knew what happened. Or maybe popo's can draw on and shoot a kid way before he even knows what's happening. Maybe within 2 seconds. Who knows, I heard urban preteens are pretty efficient in outgunning cops these days. Too much call of duty and John Wayne going in with these urban youths.

I think some of you get creative in your description of certain events involving certain people.

In reply to yupididit:

If they just let him (Rice) lay there and die, that's berkeleyed up and someone needs to be held accountable for that. It is also unfortunate that race is injected into this. Plenty of stats showing that the PoPo mostly kill white people, but those events don't make the news today. Also, I know that the rules of engagement for out troops in Afghanistan were (are) much more strict than what the PoPo can do to U.S. Citizens on the streets of our country. And don't forget that the PoPo are armed with ammunition banned by international agreements on what can be used in war, such as hollow points and CS gas.

Nobody would give a E36 M3 if Rice was white.

ronholm wrote: Nobody would give a E36 M3 if Rice was white.

Pretty much. A guy got shot by two cops just around the corner from me, mental patient who was carrying a knife and threatening family members. It made the local news for 1 day, then poof.

This next is going to piss some people off: it's gotten to the point where everyone can be proud of their race, sex orientation, etc except for straight white guys.

Brown rice taste better.

Race is my favorite topic.

Race cars

Race drivers

Race tracks

Race parts

Race teams

I'm a 21st Century race-ist.

Two seconds just doesn't seem like you would get an accurate assessment of the situation. If jumping out of a car guns blazing was the way to go I imagine we'd see it happen more often.

Back to the original topic I understand why the p.o. wasn't convicted but just for being late to the party, jumping up on the hood and emptying has gun into dead people he sould have gotten some kind of showboating penalty.

Dr. Hess wrote: In reply to yupididit: I know that the rules of engagement for out troops in Afghanistan were (are) much more strict than what the PoPo can do to U.S. Citizens on the streets of our country. And don't forget that the PoPo are armed with ammunition banned by international agreements on what can be used in war, such as hollow points and CS gas.

that is pretty messed up.

All I can say is, just watch the video. Don't listen to Fox News. Don't listen to MSNBC.

Imagine your child playing alone in a park with a toy gun.

We probably need to re-think the rules of engagement for police officers in this country. We certainly need to re-think the consequences of not following them. Just saying "I got all excited in the heat of the moment" and sending them back out there doesn't seem like a good solution, either socially or professionally.

ronholm wrote: Nobody would give a E36 M3 if Rice was white.

More like main stream media wouldn't care if Rice was white.

Datsun1500 wrote:

yupididit wrote: From the time the cop arrived and shot the kid was 2 seconds. I've given afghans more time to berkeley it up for themselves when I give them commands.

How long are they supposed to wait? 2 seconds can be the difference between living and dying. The 911 calls were "man waving gun" not "little kid playing with toy gun" there's a huge difference between the two.

Yes give the kid 2 berkeleying seconds. How fast do your kids respond to anything? E36 M3, I'm 26 and I hardly understand yelled or spoken commands within 2seconds and I'm in the military.

And they showed up and saw a man with a gun.

Correction, a kid with something in his wasteband.

But, I guess those cop assessed the situation accurately and responded accordingly. All under 2 seconds. We should be happy that a cop survived and a child died. No wrong there. Move along. Most efficient cop ever. Able to get out the car, assess the situation, and accurately place a deadly shot on the offending evil doer. Let all cops just react from what they hear from dispatch and not take in account what they actually encountered when arriving on the scene.

I don't care what race Rice was. He was a damn kid in a park who was shot and killed within 2secs of police encountering him.

My bad for taking this offcourse but I really think people have such a disregard for human life these days. It's sad.

The thing that makes me put the bulk of the blame on the cops in the Tamir Rice deal is how they flew up on the kid and more or less jumped out the car guns blazing. Rather than slowly approaching from a distance and attempting to deescalate things.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: The thing that makes me put the bulk of the blame on the cops in the Tamir Rice deal is how they flew up on the kid and more or less jumped out the car guns blazing. Rather than slowly approaching from a distance and attempting to deescalate things.

The reason they did that is that they wanted to arrest the suspect. Slowly approaching from a distance is a good way to get him to flee.

Sure, we know now that it was some kid with a pellet gun. That's not what was called. And the kid, unfortunately, decided to reach for his waistband, which is kind of exactly the thing you should NOT do when being approached by agitated police officers who have to go in and try to apprehend someone who is waving a gun around.

That's the sad part of the case. The infuriating part is the lack of medical concern after the fact.

Datsun1500 wrote: They didn't know it was a kid with a toy gun when they pulled up.

What difference does it make? Let's say the kid really did have a gun, is it not insanely reckless to bum rush the kid to begin with? This was a case of shoot first, ask questions later, plain and simple, that's not what the police are for.

In reply to Datsun1500:

I was unaware it was procedure to come skidding into a potential threat situation from about 5 feet away. Have you seen the video? That's how it happens, they come flying in, slam on the brakes, jump out, kid drops.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, this kid berkeleyed up, but the police berkeleyed up a lot worse.

Datsun1500 clearly hasn't seen the video.

Curmudgeon wrote:

ronholm wrote: Nobody would give a E36 M3 if Rice was white.

Pretty much. A guy got shot by two cops just around the corner from me, mental patient who was carrying a knife and threatening family members. It made the local news for 1 day, then poof. This next is going to piss some people off: it's gotten to the point where everyone can be proud of their race, sex orientation, etc except for straight white guys.

They're proud of it because they haven't been allowed to be for the entirety of history. As a straight white guy, life is by default waaaaaaaay easier for me than any minority group. Let them be proud, they've earned it.

Curmudgeon wrote: Pretty much. A guy got shot by two cops just around the corner from me, mental patient who was carrying a knife and threatening family members. It made the local news for 1 day, then poof.

I would bet the guy's family isn't making a big deal out of it. My cousin stabbed by uncle and if the police shot him taking him in we would have manages.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: In reply to Datsun1500: I was unaware it was procedure to come skidding into a potential threat situation from about 5 feet away. Have you seen the video? That's how it happens, they come flying in, slam on the brakes, jump out, kid drops. EDIT: Don't get me wrong, this kid berkeleyed up, but the police berkeleyed up a lot worse.

Coming up fast like that WAS a deliberate move. Surprise and disorient, so maybe you can arrest the guy before he has an opportunity to flee or start shooting. Both of which they did not want to happen.

What I heard was "in that neighborhood, that is how arrests are made so they don't get a chance to run away." Presumably without shooting them first, otherwise this would have been commonplace instead of national news.

In reply to Knurled:

I never said it wasn't a deliberate move, I said it was a berkeleying stupid move, and hazardous to both parties compared to other potential approaches to the situation.

PubBurgers wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote:

ronholm wrote: Nobody would give a E36 M3 if Rice was white.

Pretty much. A guy got shot by two cops just around the corner from me, mental patient who was carrying a knife and threatening family members. It made the local news for 1 day, then poof. This next is going to piss some people off: it's gotten to the point where everyone can be proud of their race, sex orientation, etc except for straight white guys.

They're proud of it because they haven't been allowed to be for the entirety of history. As a straight white guy, life is by default waaaaaaaay easier for me than any minority group. Let them be proud, they've earned it.

I think you miss the point. I think everyone should be proud of who and what they are, as long as that identity does not involve harm to others. That should include everyone, right? Then I no longer want to hear '#[insert color here] lives matter'; it's 'ALL lives matter'.

The kid in Cleveland; that was a terrible thing and yes I've seen the video. The bad part, from the cop's point of view? They had NO WAY of knowing ahead of time the kid was showing a 'toy gun'; the 911 call says 'probably fake' but who will stake their lives on that? Turns out it was a fake; I'd hate to have that on my conscience.

The best thing this kid could have done would be like the guy in Atlanta who held the carjacker recently; when the cops showed up he immediately put the gun down and raised his hands. Had this kid done that, there might have been a much different outcome. Unfortunately at age 12, he just didn't appear to have the common sense to realize he was in a real bad spot.

I won't comment on the alleged extended time for first aid or the cop's alleged failure at firearms instruction, I don't have anything other than the pap the news media sees fit to dribble out with no video/audio to back it up.

So again this was a terrible thing, I really wish it hadn't happened. Now compare the media reaction to that of the guy around the corner from me. This is, unfortunately, another example of the so called news in this country stirring up crap for the sake of ratings and some individuals playing right into their hands. You see it again in the Waco biker shootings; there's a hue and cry about how things were allegedly done differently. FWIW, I put the Waco bikers on the same level as the thugs who burned Ferguson, etc. and no that didn't go over well with a few of my FB friends. Oh, well.

Datsun1500 wrote: I've seen the video. Like I said before, second guessing after the event is easy. Does it suck the kid got killed, yes. Want to know what would have guaranteed he didn't? Don't wave a gun, modified to look real, at people and don't reach for it when the cops roll up. That kid is 100% responseible for what happened to him.

This. Well, actually I'd modify that to 80% kid's fault, 20% poor parenting. SEriously.... give a kid a toy gun and teach him NO responsibility? Damn near Darwinism at work there. Personally, I'd like to see the parents pay for the officer's grief therapy sessions he'll likely be enrolled in for years to come.