I can't imagine that new Pontiacs will ever be sold in this country again. The most likely scenario would be for GM to sell the name to a Chinese company that could market their junk here under a familiar nameplate.
Tomorrow's Election Day. Do what you can to support American manufacturing. In other words, throw the bums out!
I'm a huge fan of Pontiac, and it's sad to see them go. They should have kept them over Buick. Total BS right there. 
So what if they are popular in China? This is the U.S., damnit! There is no reason for Buick to exist in the U.S. market.
The fact that they closed down Pontiac further cements the fact that I will NEVER buy another new GM product in my lifetime. They were just getting good with the GTO, the G8, and the Solstice, and in typical GM fashion, they didn't give them a chance to turn it around. They can go straight to hell!
I'm gonna hug my Trans Am when I get home. 
1988RedT2 wrote: I can't imagine that new Pontiacs will ever be sold in this country again. The most likely scenario would be for GM to sell the name to a Chinese company that could market their junk here under a familiar nameplate. Tomorrow's Election Day. Do what you can to support American manufacturing. In other words, throw the bums out!
To fully flounder this thread, I would do the opposite. Well, I'd toss the R's.
ok, silverfleet, that leaves more Cruze SS (trust me, they will be here one day), Regal GS, and Caprices for all the rest of us. They may have made bad decisions, but what car maker right now ISNT pissing off enthusiasts? in a down market and down economy, you make what sells most. Cheap, powerful, sporty, low optioned cars dont pay the bills. Hondas are barges, Nissans cost eleventeen thousand bazillion dollars, Subies arent as fun and even the exotics are turning into Family sedans.
Im going to maintain that Cobalts and Cruzes are the enthusiast on a budget platforms of the future. Did they brand engineer themselves into the ground for 2 decades? Yep. Did they forget how to market to car people? To be certain! but seriously?!?! The GM hate is sooo misplaced its not funny...
SilverFleet wrote: I'm a huge fan of Pontiac, and it's sad to see them go. They should have kept them over Buick. Total BS right there.
Company A, Buick, is making you money, and expanding it customer base. Company B. Pontiac, is losing market share, costing you money and is adding to the red ink to your balance sheet. And you need a loan to stay alive and in business. Keep the doors open. What would you do? Pay your creditors with memories and I remember when? Last I looked my landlord wouldn't take that currency, nor would the bank that owns this building. It might be brutal, but, that's fact. And Buick is selling every car they can in China. There, it's the '50s again, and they are a bit of a status symbol. It's marketing. money and business. You can't pay the bills with memories and "I wish".
SilverFleet wrote: The fact that they closed down Pontiac further cements the fact that I will NEVER buy another new GM product in my lifetime. They were just getting good with the GTO, the G8, and the Solstice, and in typical GM fashion, they didn't give them a chance to turn it around. They can go straight to hell!
I have a couple of early F bodies (72 and 78) and a new Solstice GXP coupe. I'm not happy they gave Pontiac the axe, but I'm not going near as far as to say I'll never buy another new GM. Believe me if I had the coin right now a new ZR1 would be in the garage.
What surprises me, if if GM REALLY wanted to clear the bottom line, why they didn't sell Pontiac to a niche market. Chrysler is working on doing it with the Viper, Saab got handed to Spyker. There WERE deals in the works for both Saturn and Hummer- but you NEVER EVER heard about a possible deal for the Poncho. IIRC there were several suitors lined up, foaming at the mouth. They MAY have ended up as a niche market hot rod maker, or even a primarily restoration type outfit ala Delorean- but there were enough people that GM could have sold the name instead of euthanizing it. THAT right there is the reason I think GM has a trick up their sleeves, and will slide us some hot rod pontiacs before too long.
Company A, Buick, is making you money, and expanding it customer base. Company B. Pontiac, is losing market share, costing you money and is adding to the red ink to your balance sheet. And you need a loan to stay alive and in business. Keep the doors open. What would you do? Pay your creditors with memories and I remember when? Last I looked my landlord wouldn't take that currency, nor would the bank that owns this building. It might be brutal, but, that's fact. And Buick is selling every car they can in China. There, it's the '50s again, and they are a bit of a status symbol. It's marketing. money and business. You can't pay the bills with memories and "I wish".
From a business standpoint, it made complete sense to save Buick over Pontiac. As you said, GM is struggling to keep up with demand for Buicks' in China, and everyone here knows the story of Pontiacs' demise.
I understand the point made about the costs associated with trying to revive the Pontiac name. But I wonder what the cost is going to be for GM to try to change the image of Buick here in the US. Their current product line appealed to seniors. How much will they spend to change that? Otherwise, what sense would it make to keep the Buick name here in the US? Why not just make it another Holden...a company owned by GM but not sold directly here?
Klayfish wrote:Company A, Buick, is making you money, and expanding it customer base. Company B. Pontiac, is losing market share, costing you money and is adding to the red ink to your balance sheet. And you need a loan to stay alive and in business. Keep the doors open. What would you do? Pay your creditors with memories and I remember when? Last I looked my landlord wouldn't take that currency, nor would the bank that owns this building. It might be brutal, but, that's fact. And Buick is selling every car they can in China. There, it's the '50s again, and they are a bit of a status symbol. It's marketing. money and business. You can't pay the bills with memories and "I wish".From a business standpoint, it made complete sense to save Buick over Pontiac. As you said, GM is struggling to keep up with demand for Buicks' in China, and everyone here knows the story of Pontiacs' demise. I understand the point made about the costs associated with trying to revive the Pontiac name. But I wonder what the cost is going to be for GM to try to change the image of Buick here in the US. Their current product line appealed to seniors. How much will they spend to change that? Otherwise, what sense would it make to keep the Buick name here in the US? Why not just make it another Holden...a company owned by GM but not sold directly here?
Because they're trying to slot Buick in where Mercury used to be for Ford- entry level luxury. They've got Caddy to fight with Lincoln, and really if they could only keep one luxury marque, it sure as hell wouldn't be Buick. GM isn't stupid, even if they do build retarded cars. They've got their Vauxhalls and their Holdens and Opels and whatnot to sell overseas, no need to crowd the market with another one of those "labels". The fact that the Chinese are buying Buicks hand over fist is sort of surprising- but not really. Some cars just tend to hold better names than others in various parts of the world. Look at Toyota. I drove a Corolla for a good while, and was talking to my uncle Mark about it one day. He flat out told me (he's from South Africa) that i'd hold a higher level of respect in Johannesburg for driving my dirtbag AE101, than I would for owning an e36 BMW... which was newer, and what he happened to be driving at the time. GM could make Buick an asian market only brand- but I don't think the powers that be would let that happen. Too many old people still vote and whatnot.
It's not just the whole "killing off Pontiac" thing that will keep me out of GM showrooms, but it doesn't help. GM has made so many bad business decisions over the years, and I'm not going to reward them by buying one of their cars or trucks now, and I was once a die-hard GM guy. Do they really need to badge-engineer the hell out of everything they make? Hell, GMC as a division has nothing unique! Why didn't they shut them down?
Oh, and I don't have the numbers off hand, but I believe that the Pontiac division was actually outselling the Buick division in the U.S. for a few months before it was shut down. The G8 was picking up speed, the Solstice was doing ok, but all the other leftover turds that they had in the line-up (the G5, the G6, etc) were not selling and that's what killed them.
And there were some stupid decisions that I could never understand, like why there was no "GXP" version of the G5 (Cobalt clone). That should have happened from day one. Would that have saved them? Probably not. Would replacing the G6 with something like the Opel Insignia (which is now the Regal here) and offering a variety of performance options and attractive bodywork saved them? It would have certainly helped.
With all the federal emission regulations looming, even saving them would have been a fruitless effort. There was no room in GM's lineup for a "performance division".
alfadriver wrote:1988RedT2 wrote: I can't imagine that new Pontiacs will ever be sold in this country again. The most likely scenario would be for GM to sell the name to a Chinese company that could market their junk here under a familiar nameplate. Tomorrow's Election Day. Do what you can to support American manufacturing. In other words, throw the bums out!To fully flounder this thread, I would do the opposite. Well, I'd toss the R's.
Is there any way we can throw everyone out and lock the doors?
Another thought:
While Pontiac was still around (in the last decade or so), when was the last time you saw ads running on TV for their products? Never? Yeah, I thought so.
I can't remember the last TV ad I saw for one of their cars. That definitely couldn't help sales.
In reply to SilverFleet: Read the NY Times article cited above, and you get the same general idea. Worth the couple of minutes to peruse.
Also in reply to SilverFleet: the total costs for GMC, more or less, are a couple of front ends, some nameplates, and some ads. For that outgo, you get to sell almost as many pickups and SUVs as Chevy. That's a biz-school no-brainer.
Or you could work the math the other way and say you can amortize all your R&D for pickups and SUVs over two brands instead of one.
Either way, GMC is a sweet deal for GM. The only downside I can think of is that splitting their pickup sales into two means the F150 will always be the sales champ.
IIRC they TRIED to sell Pontiac but there were no takers.
carguy123 wrote: IIRC they TRIED to sell Pontiac but there were no takers.
I have no data to back this whatsoever, but Im sure there were no takers to the deal GM presented to those who were interested...meaning GM has plans for the brand, and the only way they were willing to sell was if the bidder was interested in paying what GM though the revamped/re-released version was worth.
just a guess.
In reply to everyone: I should have put this disclaimer up before going on my rants...
I'm sorry I'm so bitter today. Today is the first day of the month, and work sucks. It's like getting your "special time of the month", but for accountants.
I'm bummed that Pontiac is done, and I don't like GM right now, but the whole industry is in the crapper right now. I really hope that we don't fall into a second automotive dark ages. 
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