Poor kid that died at Indy

my cousin has 2 kids that are racing motocross and one that might next year- the oldest is 10 and pretty much owns the 65cc class at a couple of tracks and is solidly mid pack at other tracks where more kids with more money and better equipment show up, and his sister is 8 and just kind of rides around at the back of the pack on her brother's old 50cc KTM . their 5 year old brother just started riding this year, but he's always sitting on the bikes in the pits pretending to do all the tricks like the guys on tv and doesn't seem to have any interest in actually racing or even watching his brother and sister race. he just wanders from pit to pit and entertains people all day while they are at the track.

the oldest has crashed hard a few times and broke his arm halfway thru last season. he got second place for the season in his class because he missed a couple of races when his arm was in a cast.. 2 weekends ago, one of his friends got hurt really bad while they were racing- i think it was a broken arm and some fractured ribs or something when he tried to hit a triple that the bigger guys were hitting and didn't make it- but my nephew still races as hard as he can over every jump on every lap. this kid is almost a prodigy- he has the advantage of being smaller than the other kids he races against, and he's not trying to get big air all the time. he just tries to race fast and smooth.

is it abuse to let the kid race? some of our relatives think so, and my cousin's mother in law won't go to the track to watch because she thinks 10 year olds shouldn't be allowed to ride a bicycle more than a block away from home... my cousin and his wife never try to push him into going to the races, and they realized that he races better if he just tells him to go out there and have fun with his friends instead of trying to win all the time. if he doesn't want to go to a race on any given weekend, they don't go. but he also knows how the season points standings are affected when he doesn't race- he actually knows when he can skip a weekend and not take too much of a hit in the standings.

Speaking as an ex-motorcycle road racer - but one w/o kids.

The 250 4 strokes (mostly Moriwakis) in the class Peter Lenz was contesting are pretty fast - particularly w/ tweeners aboard as opposed to big, fat amateur adult racers. A warm up lap is done at very close to race pace - everyone uses tire warmers so max grip is on within a couple corners.

I've come terrifyingly close to hitting crashed riders before. Headed out of Summit Point T9 at WOT - guy in front of me suddenly stands it up, grabs a huge handful of front brake, tucks the front and crashes. Turns out he was trying to avoid the bike and rider sprawled directly in the middle of the racing line. I swear the guy left fingerprints on my front tire sidewall.

I could just as easily have centerpunched him had he been 20" to the left.

Racing is great - and to have a prayer of ascending to the heights of MotoGP one must have started young, had talent and determination and supportive parents, and managed to get old enough while not having had "the big one".

Some kids are lucky enough to find the skills and the sponsorship and all the rest and make it. The vast majority don't.

Form a purely subjective standpoint - I don't think kids are able to parse the risks - it's not likely something like this will happen - but it can. This applies to everyone who goes wheel-to-wheel racing, and it's why I spend my track time at HPDE's in a car with every piece of safety gear I can have. But that's MY choice.

Kids are fearless.

I'm 48, and still race motocross. I run expert class.

There are (little) kids on 65's that out jump me.

RIP Peter Lenz Boy Racer

Have to agree with Dr. Keith Ablow on this sad story. "In these circumstances, the law may be the best brake on runaway, thrill-seeking, fame-hungry, ego-driven, money-obsessed parents and organizations. " If it can be proven that no one could reasonably assure a 13-year-old of anything like safety while racing at the speedway Sunday, then let the civil litigation begin. Maybe a successful action against the track and the Racers Union group would be noticed. Or maybe a dozen of Peter Lenz’s close friends could prevail in a suit against his parents. See, when parents abandon their proper role protecting their children, plenty of kids can get hurt—not just their own. Dr. Keith Ablow

Judge Jeneane Perro agreed: Children look to their parents for guidance and inspiration. When they are manipulated from the age of five and encouraged to spend their childhood days racing lethal weapons and endangering their fragile bodies, it's a crime. Parents who express such a savage appetite for success that it ultimately affects the welfare of their children are responsible and should be held accountable for the resulting deaths. Peter Lenz's parents are responsible for branding him the youngest ever to die at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

(The opinions expressed in Jeanine's Journal belong solely to Jeanine Pirro, and do not reflect the opinions or beliefs of the series' producers, AND Syndicated Productions, Inc.)

My question: what exactly is required to provoke the USGPRU to reconsider their rules and raise the age limit of the category in which these kids are put at such immense risk? The USGPRU was delighted to accept Lenz as the youngest winner of their competition. Are they now happy to accept him as their youngest competitor to die? All in the name of the game (and maybe money) it seems.

The death of a child is one death too many, and the law should be changed to ensure that no more minors are forced, allowed or encouraged to essentially sacrifice their lives. How do we justify that adults are charged with child endangerment for driving recklessly with children in the car, but those same adults can allow their children to ride motorcycles at excessive speeds without suffering any legal ramifications whatsoever?

Again the notion of permission to race but not licensed to drive is very out-date.

I am SOOO glad my parents allowed me to become a strong independent man with a healthy respect for actions and consequences, rather than a worthless coddled wet noodle that you seem so intent on forcing us to all become.

DILYSI Dave wrote: I am SOOO glad my parents allowed me to become a strong independent man with a healthy respect for actions and consequences, rather than a worthless coddled wet noodle that you seem so intent on forcing us to all become.

I agree completely. I was given a .22 rifle at age 5, was driving a VW Thing at age 9(with dad in the backseat), operating farm tractors and equipment at age 11 and flying a Cessna 340 at age 13(again dad was in the back). Any of those things had deadly consequences that I was very aware of. It gave me an appreciation of life that I think is missing in those that always take the "safe" way through life.

Oh no!

Neon18 is back!!!

-Rob

rob_lewis wrote: Oh no! Neon18 is back!!! -Rob

But the grammar and punctuation are WAY better.

I find it interesting that people are accusing these parents of being greedy or money hungry. I don't know anybody who has made money racing. I know lots that have poured a fortune into it.

Neon18 wrote: My question: what exactly is required to provoke the USGPRU to reconsider their rules and raise the age limit of the category in which these kids are put at such immense risk? The death of a child is one death too many, and the law should be changed to ensure that no more minors are forced, allowed or encouraged to essentially sacrifice their lives.

Street-driven motor vehicle accidents have long been the leading cause of death for children. You put your child at 'such immense risk' every time you put them into your car, and rarely think twice about it. If the death of one child racing is 'one too many', and thus 'the law should be changed' - what laws should be changed to save the thousands of children killed each year in regular auto accidents? Why isn't that your priority?

While it saddens me that children die. It has been happening since humans have been around. I would hate to live in a world where kids have to live in a bubble of safety until they are "Old enough to know better". My daughter is only 7, if she wanted to try something I would do my best to help her. Right now she is very into ballet. If she continues into adulthood she will have foot and leg problems for the rest of her life. B ut it will be her choice. Any parent that forces a child into something for the parents edification should be taken behind the wood shed and beaten with a large stick.

Just my two cents.

Kia_racer wrote: While it saddens me that children die. It has been happening since humans have been around. I would hate to live in a world where kids have to live in a bubble of safety until they are "Old enough to know better".

Funny thing is, if you're cocooned like that then you will never know better. You learn by getting hurt.

For example.

Number of (multi-car) motor vehicle accidents I've been in: Zero.

Number of times I've been hit by cars while riding my bike: At least three.

Lesson: Even if the other driver seems to make eye contact, NEVER assume that they can see you. NEVER assume that you can just butt into traffic and they'll see you and slow down. NEVER assume that they are paying attention and will notice you stopping for the late yellow light... basically, always go off of the hypothesis that every other driver on the road is a complete blithering idiot with the situational awareness of a rock.

Wouldn't have figured that out if I hadn't been clobbered (and nearly clobbered) so many times as a kid.

nderwater wrote: Street-driven motor vehicle accidents have long been the leading cause of death for children. You put your child at 'such immense risk' every time you put them into your car, and rarely think twice about it. If the death of one child racing is 'one too many', and thus 'the law should be changed' - what laws should be changed to save the thousands of children killed each year in regular auto accidents? Why isn't that your priority?

Perspective is a funny thing.

Most people just don't get it.

rob_lewis wrote: Oh no! Neon18 is back!!! -Rob

The name rings a bell but I don't recall the previous thread. Was it the "tax on motorsports" tempest?

My first thought was that Neon18's posts (bringing this thread back) were canoe-like.

Kia_racer wrote: While it saddens me that children die. It has been happening since humans have been around. I would hate to live in a world where kids have to live in a bubble of safety until they are "Old enough to know better". My daughter is only 7, if she wanted to try something I would do my best to help her. Right now she is very into ballet. If she continues into adulthood she will have foot and leg problems for the rest of her life. B ut it will be her choice. Any parent that forces a child into something for the parents edification should be taken behind the wood shed and beaten with a large stick. Just my two cents.

Plus Infinity!

I did Taekwondo really seriously when I was a kid. And I'm sure that my shoulder that seems to get hurt rather easily is because of it. And a dozen or so random aches and pains that I'm sure stem from it. But I was so happy doing it. My parents never pushed me to be anything but the best I could be.

What happened is very sad. But, when you look at it, people die every day for much sillier things.

I would rather die on the track , than like the King on the e36 m3er.

Appleseed wrote: I would rather die on the track , than like the King on the e36 m3er.

If Neon18 knew what you meant, she'd have you straight-jacketed, diapered, and force-fed (with approved nutrients) by an armed guard.

It's for your own good and it doesn't matter how you "feel" about it.