Push a Button--Make Child Molesters Disappear?

valkyrie:

I'd agree that child molestation falls solidly in the "absolutely wrong" section.

I don't know that it necessarily needs to be an issue of moral standards; whether or not to push the button. I'm thinking more along the lines of the rule of law. I would not agree with pushing the proverbial button on someone who had never even been formally accused of a crime.

For some really awesome insight (which you may or may not agree with) on the concept of 'black, white and grey' areas, read "The Virtue of Selfishness" by Ayn Rand. It's a short book, but a long read (for me anyway; mrs. poop blazed through it.)

I love it of how some of you try to justify rapists and murderers as good people.

Congratulations, you sicken me. And with that, I'm out of this thread as I am disturbed that there are such people in this world who justify these people.

HiTempguy wrote: You obviously don't know me very well. That is something called "collateral damage" in my mind. I'd expect somebody to do the same thing even if I was the one wrongfully convicted....

Hey, at least you are consistent in your view, I can respect that.

Not sure the "acceptable collateral damage" argument works with most people though.

HiTempguy wrote: I love it of how some of you try to justify rapists and murderers as good people. Congratulations, you sicken me. And with that, I'm out of this thread as I am disturbed that there are such people in this world who justify these people.

It's a theoretical argument. No need to get all butt-hurt about it. Nobody has a magic button they're trying to keep you from pressing. I don't think anyone here has said "rapists and murderers are good people." Don't be silly.

So here's another good logical argument: You've already stated that you'd be willing to die for the cause of murdering murderers and pedophiles. Why not get started today?

Who the heck is trying to justify rape or murder?

That's completely idiotic.

No one is trying to justify doing anything wrong. What I'm seeing is all of us trying to come to terms with right or wrong when pressing the button that makes some wrong people go away.

As people, are they more wrong than the rest of us?

Wrong actions. Seriously wrong actions.

But wrong(er) people?

Good point.

SVreX said: The answer to your question is that you will need to choose a standard by which to measure right from wrong, and live by it. I don't know if you were kidding about your folks being skin heads, but it sounds like you are searching for some answers that they didn't give you, or that you haven't discovered through your own life experiences. The problem is that you have discovered a discomfort with right and wrong being relative to situations or circumstances. If right and wrong are relative, then there is no right and wrong. You need a standard to live by. Some have chosen the Bible, some the Koran, some the teachings of Karl Marx, Bertrand Russell, or Isaac Asimov. Some choose to follow David Smith, some Star Trek, some themselves. I have personally followed several over the years, until I examined them and found them to be false. Absolute right and wrong will not exist unless they are measured against a standard. Even child molestation is not absolutely wrong, as evidenced by the responses here. Some cultures sacrifice their children to the rain gods. I guess that is considered a good thing in those cultures. I choose Christianity. Not church, not religion. But the more I have studied it, the more convinced I am that it is a true standard on which I can base my life. I understand some people will disagree. You are looking for philosophical absolutes among a bunch of car guys who never agree with each other on anything. I don't think you will find what you are looking for here.

I hope the skinhead folks comment wasn't directed at me--if so, there is some confusion as that is most definitely not the case for my family.

This is an open discussion. Free for all opinions.

Right and wrong can be gray and--it can be absolute. I follow a misture of common sense, life experience, and teachings (Hindu, Buddhists, Shinto, Christian, you can name all of the religions in this regard).

As the world evolves and people with it perspective changes. Perspectives changed about african-americans, and most recently, homosexuals. While there are those that hate these groups, I would be optimistic and say that most of the world does not.

However, pedophiles, I believe, will always be a hated group.

I do believe people can be more wrong that others. The Bible teaches different punishments for different sins as does the Koran. The man who steals has his hand chopped off--the man who rapes is castrated. Those are examples from the top of my head--not researched. Please don't rip me up on them.

But would anybody here push the button if it would remove all the people who have deliberately released a computer virus? I would have to ponder that one a while.

redvalkyrie wrote: I hope the skinhead folks comment wasn't directed at me--if so, there is some confusion as that is most definitely not the case for my family.

No harm intended. Near the bottom of the previous page you made a statement regarding such. I wasn't sure if it was a hypothetical statement or a factual one.

My apologies for anything misconstrued. Obviously it was hypothetical.

redvalkyrie wrote: However, pedophiles, I believe, will always be a hated group.

While I share your opinion on this matter, I can't agree with your statement.

There are (and always have been) a large number of people who advocate adult/ child relations. Witness Vladimir Nabokov's book Lolita (or Stanley Kubrick's movie).

And it will ALWAYS be defined by societal norms. 18 year old dating a 16 year old? 20 year old teacher impregnated by her 16 year old student? Mayans did child sacrifice- so did Aztecs and Incas.

Besides, even you are not actually talking about pedophilia (a medical condition with exclusive desires, not necessarily child abuse). Pederasty is closer to what you are talking about (erotic relationship with a child). Pederasty has roots in Greek culture, Roman, Moorish, Japanese, English, Mayan, and many other cultures. It was often viewed in a positive light, sometimes as a component of an apprenticeship relationship. It wasn't until Judaism and Christianity opposed it that it became taboo.

I am NOT defending it. I am simply pointing out that your statement that pedophiles will always be a hated group is simply not true.

So, whose morality will define the red button? What if modern advocates of pederasty get control of it, and decide that anyone who likes cars should be eradicated? THEN what will we do?

Without a standard, there is no standard.

One other thought- molestation really can't be defined by whether a child consents or not.

My wife hates her uncle. He kissed her "weird" when she was a child (she says he would occasionally slip the tongue). I'll defend her to the death and see to it that Uncle A$$hole never gets near her, but that doesn't mean it necessarily happened (at least not by any objective form of measurement).

What if he had a mild cleft, or other anomaly that just felt weird? What if she just didn't like getting kissed, or didn't like him?

There are childhood memories she has which I know to be factually wrong. What if this one is?

While it makes no difference to me (Uncle A will not be near my wife), in legal terms it makes a BIG difference.

ESPECIALLY if you are getting ready to push the button.

You will have to subscribe to a standard to have any "absolute", and later subscription to an alternate standard will have the potential to void the absoluteness of a perspective.

I would not push the button that makes child molesters dissappear, but I might hack said button to make child molesters crave the company of inflatable dolls.

No harm intended. Near the bottom of the previous page you made a statement regarding such. I wasn't sure if it was a hypothetical statement or a factual one.

No harm taken. I think you may have read someone else's post and mistaken it as mine.

This is an open talk...my ego was checked at the door and my open mind hat put on.

One other thought- molestation really can't be defined by whether a child consents or not

Are children capable of knowing what is right and wrong and what constitutes molestation? Can a three year old clearly identify molestation beyond "he touched me here...?"

Take a look at your post on Dec. 9, 2010 11:18. 2nd paragraph from the end of the post.

I think you got the formatting wrong. It appears to be your writing, but you may have been quoting someone else.

Perhaps you'd like to edit it.

Besides, even you are not actually talking about pedophilia (a medical condition with exclusive desires, not necessarily child abuse). Pederasty is closer to what you are talking about (erotic relationship with a child). Pederasty has roots in Greek culture, Roman, Moorish, Japanese, English, Mayan, and many other cultures. It was often viewed in a positive light, sometimes as a component of an apprenticeship relationship. It wasn't until Judaism and Christianity opposed it that it became taboo. I am NOT defending it. I am simply pointing out that your statement that pedophiles will always be a hated group is simply not true.

Very good points. However, these practices have largely. Been phased out. And what was once wrong doesn't make it right now. I simply can't imagine our collective definition of child molestation ever being accepted again.

I'm afraid you are incorrect. They have not been phased out, they have gone underground.

Advocates of Pedophilia form Dutch political party

Dutch pedophiles said: 'Consensual' sex between humans and animals would remain legal...

Take a look at your post on Dec. 9, 2010 11:18. 2nd paragraph from the end of the post. I think you got the formatting wrong. It appears to be your writing, but you may have been quoting someone else. Perhaps you'd like to edit it.

Thank you. That was an error. I am on an iPad and learning how to use it.

SVreX wrote: I'm afraid you are incorrect. They have not been phased out, they have gone underground. Advocates of Pedophilia form Dutch political party

Not even going to click that link...child sex is rampant but--it has become mostly illegal, correct?

Depends what country.

The link is essentially a news link, but I don't blame you in the least for avoiding it.

Suffice it to say that there are still people in the world who think intimate relations with children are OK.

I leave judgments like that up to God, personally. Down here, right now, I make sure they don't come near my kids. I also misdirect/correct people who just want to show up and yell at the person. I had that happen in a previous apartment complex.

Not all convicted pedophiles actually did anything or will do it again.
People make mistakes when they are young (i.e. taking a plea bargain because you are already in jail for an unrelated offense).

If it wasn't already obvious, I have a good friend in this situation. He is currently sitting in jail AGAIN for a failure to register bum rap. He is also among the first to tell you that the laws make sense because 99.9% of those convicted will do it again. This coming from a guy who has shared a cell with other pervs. He won't, as he was young and dumb and copped a plea that screwed him. Does he spend time with my kids? yup, when he is able to. I've known him for 16 yrs or so and I keep him out of trouble (mostly) when I'm around. Except this stupid registration crapola, which he happens to agree with.