They were just saying on CNN one of these plants is using an experimental fuel that contains plutonium 
. There is also a supply being stored there.
They were just saying on CNN one of these plants is using an experimental fuel that contains plutonium . There is also a supply being stored there.
Here's a report that updates the status of the reactor and possible consequences: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/12/shaking-smoke-seen-japanese-nuclear-plant-facing-possible-meltdown/ Fortunately, if the info is reliable and accurate, a new Chernobyl won't occur.
This depressing photo gives some perspective on the tsunami's immense power:
Notice the buildings (on the bluffs) in the upper-right hand corner. The debris field is at least half way up what is probably a 90'-100' rise. I fear the death toll is going to reach well into the many thousands.
minimac wrote: Hey guys....this is a serious situation for everyone! The fact that they are saying the vessel didn't "break" in the explosion(which is supposedly impossible)has no bearing whatsoever. Once the cooling water control was lost, there is nothing to control the reaction. What do you think is on fire? The building is concrete and steel-what's to burn? The building to contain the radiation in case of an accident is gone. This means it is going directly into the atmosphere. They are trying to cool the fuel and reaction by pumping seawater on it. It will turn instantly to steam. Where does that steam go? The atmosphere.The larger concern is referenced by rebelgtp above. I would have to think that most people at that site are goners, or will soon be. This should be a global concern. This is the very thing that "they" said could never happen. And this doesn't address the real threat of the "China Syndrome". Does the word Wormwood have any meaning for you? I'm not trying to be an alarmist, but this could make Chernobyl look like childs play. I doubt that we will hear the real story for many years, and this could mean the death of the new nuke industry.
(being tongue in cheek to add levity to a serious situation)
Boy those Republicans will do ANYTHING to keep coal as the predominant power provider.
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=49621
Sometimes it's interesting where you get your news. A Tokyo entertainment site has gone into news mode: https://twitter.com/#!/TimeOutTokyo
Man, this was awful. 
My mom and stepdad were on a cruise in Hawaii until today 3/12, all is well with them.
12 Nuclear reactors near the earthquake went into emergency shutdown automatically, locking into a cooling cycle of the cores. 1 reactor's coolant cycle also failed.
These core casings are ridiculously over-engineered. Its possible that even if the nuclear material melts down, they could still get it back under control before critical mass, as i understand it.
Minimac this foto scared me for sure let alone all theother disturbing news
madmallard wrote: These core casings are ridiculously over-engineered. Its possible that even if the nuclear material melts down, they could still get it back under control before critical mass, as i understand it.
I was thinking about this earlier today. It is bad that all this is happening like it is, but it is a comforting fact that it is happening in Japan and not India or Pakistan or the Ukraine.
i know. just consider the amount of force this quake had compared to the Haiti quake.
The Haiti quake flattened pretty much everything and was only in the 6's.
I don't know that even California is well engineered enough to take a high 8 like Japan did.
Just got back from Hawaii this morning. Was there during the Tsunami, at Wakiki. The warning started Thursday night, I checked the news for how bad it's forecasted, decided that since I was 4 building in from the beach and on the 16th floor I would go to bed. 3AM local time I started getting phone calls from work in the states checking to see if we survived. Really wasn't bad at Wakiki, water level a little higher than normal but still away from the buildings. Flights on Friday afternoon left on time. No delays. Then I saw the devistation in Japan. WOW!! And still happening.
madmallard wrote: i know. just consider the amount of force this quake had compared to the Haiti quake. The Haiti quake flattened pretty much everything and was only in the 6's. I don't know that even California is well engineered enough to take a high 8 like Japan did.
I spent some time building in Haiti.
There is an enormous difference in the structural capacities of the buildings in Haiti and those in Japan. Japan has been building and retrofitting buildings for earthquake resistance for decades. Haiti was not known (to local builders) as an earthquake zone, and the standard construction technique was about the worst possible for earthquake resistance (un-reinforced masonry walls with excessively heavy concrete roofs). The minute they started shaking, they were guaranteed to collapse.
Buildings in Haiti were built for hurricanes, not earthquakes. They were built to resist wind lift, not seismic activity (side to side shaking).
There is no comparison between Japan and Haiti regarding the structure's ability to resist the forces of an earthquake.
minimac wrote: Hey guys....this is a serious situation for everyone! The fact that they are saying the vessel didn't "break" in the explosion(which is supposedly impossible)has no bearing whatsoever. Once the cooling water control was lost, there is nothing to control the reaction. What do you think is on fire? The building is concrete and steel-what's to burn? The building to contain the radiation in case of an accident is gone. This means it is going directly into the atmosphere. They are trying to cool the fuel and reaction by pumping seawater on it. It will turn instantly to steam. Where does that steam go? The atmosphere.The larger concern is referenced by rebelgtp above. I would have to think that most people at that site are goners, or will soon be. This should be a global concern. This is the very thing that "they" said could never happen. And this doesn't address the real threat of the "China Syndrome". Does the word Wormwood have any meaning for you? I'm not trying to be an alarmist, but this could make Chernobyl look like childs play. I doubt that we will hear the real story for many years, and this could mean the death of the new nuke industry.
China Syndrome won't happen- LOFT and TMI can tell you that.
Chyernoble was a completely different style of reactor.
Not to say not to be alarmed, but lets not over do it.
I just ran across this link on another forum. Mouse over the images to see the before/after progression.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm
Just, wow. Having been in a tsunami once, I thought I already had a good idea of the kind of damage they could do. I didn't.
alfadriver wrote:minimac wrote: Hey guys....this is a serious situation for everyone! The fact that they are saying the vessel didn't "break" in the explosion(which is supposedly impossible)has no bearing whatsoever. Once the cooling water control was lost, there is nothing to control the reaction. What do you think is on fire? The building is concrete and steel-what's to burn? The building to contain the radiation in case of an accident is gone. This means it is going directly into the atmosphere. They are trying to cool the fuel and reaction by pumping seawater on it. It will turn instantly to steam. Where does that steam go? The atmosphere.The larger concern is referenced by rebelgtp above. I would have to think that most people at that site are goners, or will soon be. This should be a global concern. This is the very thing that "they" said could never happen. And this doesn't address the real threat of the "China Syndrome". Does the word Wormwood have any meaning for you? I'm not trying to be an alarmist, but this could make Chernobyl look like childs play. I doubt that we will hear the real story for many years, and this could mean the death of the new nuke industry.China Syndrome won't happen- LOFT and TMI can tell you that. Chyernoble was a completely different style of reactor. Not to say not to be alarmed, but lets not over do it.
Thanks, Alfa.
Everyone else: He's right, let's not get too scared here. The radiation levels that humans have been exposed to are on par with an overseas flight. Not to downplay the earthquake damage, by any means, or the large loss of life, but don't leave your house and grab the family and head for Montana to "run" from the radiation, or whatever.
My uncle is Japanese and lives in Colorado. His family in Tokyo is OK. They were actually headed to the store to buy food when the quake hit, so they were ahead of everyone else to buy supplies.
minimac wrote: Hey guys....this is a serious situation for everyone! The fact that they are saying the vessel didn't "break" in the explosion(which is supposedly impossible)has no bearing whatsoever. Once the cooling water control was lost, there is nothing to control the reaction. What do you think is on fire? The building is concrete and steel-what's to burn? The building to contain the radiation in case of an accident is gone. This means it is going directly into the atmosphere. They are trying to cool the fuel and reaction by pumping seawater on it. It will turn instantly to steam. Where does that steam go? The atmosphere.The larger concern is referenced by rebelgtp above. I would have to think that most people at that site are goners, or will soon be. This should be a global concern. This is the very thing that "they" said could never happen. And this doesn't address the real threat of the "China Syndrome". Does the word Wormwood have any meaning for you? I'm not trying to be an alarmist, but this could make Chernobyl look like childs play. I doubt that we will hear the real story for many years, and this could mean the death of the new nuke industry.
Hi Ms. Information!
Chicken little scenarios don't help though.http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/
My sister-in-law had just bought groceries and was in an elevator with her youngest daughter riding up to their 4th floor condo when the quake started. Things started shaking and banging loudly. Then a recorded robo voice came on and started saying "An earthquake has been detected, please step out of the elevator," over and over. After what felt like entirely too long, the doors opened at the next floor. She grabbed her daughter, got out of the elevator, and rode out the rest of the quake in a hallway.
Thank god neither were hurt or trapped for long time.
Here's a local perspective from an American businessman who lives in Japan: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/03/13/some-perspective-on-the-japan-earthquake/
There is so much crap coming out of the world media, it's no wonder there's more concern "out there" than there is Japan itself. The incessant reporting on the nuclear plants is done to generate fear and drive ratings, little more.
I just want to know where I can donate money.
I'm hesitant to give to Red Cross because I'm concerned it won't all go to Japan.
alfadriver wrote: China Syndrome won't happen- LOFT and TMI can tell you that. Chyernoble was a completely different style of reactor. Not to say not to be alarmed, but lets not over do it.
DILYSI Dave wrote: Hi Ms. Information! 1. No containment building has been compromised. 2. The control rods are in place - it is only secondary decay that is still producing heat and will stop doing so in short order. 3. The minuscule amount of radiation that is entering the atmosphere via the steam venting is of the very-short-half-life variety, such that it is harmless in short order
When the truth about TMI finally came out, years later, they came within a very short time of meltdown. The containment buildings have blown up. The 40 year old vessel is supposedly intact. I don't believe it.The rods inserted as they should have, but the cooling water boiled off. The fuel has been exposed. They then tried to dump seawater on the superheated fuel to cool it. What happens when you try to put water on something really really hot? Ever put water into a hot frying pan? It makes steam(and hydrogen-remember H2O?) The fuel is radioactive .The steam is radioactive. The hydrogen is radioactive. The water becomes radioactive.This is what's being released. Just what is the half life of U-235/238? Any radioactive dose is harmful. Especially an internal-like from breathing- dose.I don't pretend to be a smart guy, but I have worked the industry for over 30 years and I might have learned a little bit about nukes and radiation.Believe me, this is not a good situation and it is going to get worse. I hope I'm wrong.
The explosions were the result of superheated water. At high temps H2O disassociates into Hydrogen and Oxygen, which are both volitale. Yes, the explosion damaged the building, but that is much different then damage to the vessel.
This article has good information with a good scientific base for what is happening.
http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/
Now, where does that leave us? * The plant is safe now and will stay safe. * Japan is looking at an INES Level 4 Accident: Nuclear accident with local consequences. That is bad for the company that owns the plant, but not for anyone else. * Some radiation was released when the pressure vessel was vented. All radioactive isotopes from the activated steam have gone (decayed). A very small amount of Cesium was released, as well as Iodine. If you were sitting on top of the plants’ chimney when they were venting, you should probably give up smoking to return to your former life expectancy. The Cesium and Iodine isotopes were carried out to the sea and will never be seen again. * There was some limited damage to the first containment. That means that some amounts of radioactive Cesium and Iodine will also be released into the cooling water, but no Uranium or other nasty stuff (the Uranium oxide does not “dissolve” in the water). There are facilities for treating the cooling water inside the third containment. The radioactive Cesium and Iodine will be removed there and eventually stored as radioactive waste in terminal storage. * The seawater used as cooling water will be activated to some degree. Because the control rods are fully inserted, the Uranium chain reaction is not happening. That means the “main” nuclear reaction is not happening, thus not contributing to the activation. The intermediate radioactive materials (Cesium and Iodine) are also almost gone at this stage, because the Uranium decay was stopped a long time ago. This further reduces the activation. The bottom line is that there will be some low level of activation of the seawater, which will also be removed by the treatment facilities. * The seawater will then be replaced over time with the “normal” cooling water * The reactor core will then be dismantled and transported to a processing facility, just like during a regular fuel change. * Fuel rods and the entire plant will be checked for potential damage. This will take about 4-5 years. * The safety systems on all Japanese plants will be upgraded to withstand a 9.0 earthquake and tsunami (or worse) * I believe the most significant problem will be a prolonged power shortage. About half of Japan’s nuclear reactors will probably have to be inspected, reducing the nation’s power generating capacity by 15%. This will probably be covered by running gas power plants that are usually only used for peak loads to cover some of the base load as well. That will increase your electricity bill, as well as lead to potential power shortages during peak demand, in Japan.
minimac wrote: When the truth about TMI finally came out, years later, they came within a very short time of meltdown. The containment buildings have blown up. The 40 year old vessel is supposedly intact. I don't believe it.The rods inserted as they should have, but the cooling water boiled off. The fuel has been exposed. They then tried to dump seawater on the superheated fuel to cool it. What happens when you try to put water on something really really hot? Ever put water into a hot frying pan? It makes steam(and hydrogen-remember H2O?) The fuel is radioactive .The steam is radioactive. The hydrogen is radioactive. The water becomes radioactive.This is what's being released. Just what is the half life of U-235? Any radioactive dose is harmful. Especially an internal-like from breathing- dose.I don't pretend to be a smart guy, but I have worked the industry for over 30 years and I might have learned a little bit about nukes and radiation.Believe me, this is not a good situation and it is going to get worse. I hope I'm wrong.
Not only is the hydrogen a radioactive isotope H(2) and H(3), so is the nitrogen N(16). But neither have a half life long enough to really worry about.
Steam is NOT hydrogen- H2 is created when steam gets to a high enough temp so that it breaks down to H2 and O2.
U235 is NOT, and I repeat NOT being released. Not.
And H2/O2 explosion is not strong enough to blow the main contaiment vessels.
I've been involved in the industry since I looked more into it, and worked in it as a student engineer in the 80's. I also know that TMI did not get near 3000C for a fuel meltdown to happen. Even if it did, there are enough backups engineered that it will be contained and not released. I do trust that engineering.
I didn't know of the levels of back up designed into the systems until later, but I do know the results of the LOFT test, and that when the core is exposed to air, it slows down the reaction. And, as has been pointed out, the continued reaction isn't U235, but a many other left over reactions. The radioactive uranium is contained by multiple levels, and has little risk in actually melting.
If you want to be afraid, fine. But don't make stuff up.
If you are honestly scared about this, I sure hope you don't live near a coal power plant....
But what really burns me about this reactor coverage- it's the complete LACK of coverage of what's really happening, and the real suffering. Even if the reactor has this mythical meltdown, the result will be pretty minor compared to the damage, injury, and loss of life due to the earthquake and tsunami.
How many people have no sheter, little food, questionable water, and virtually no help? Oh, and it's still winter for another week.
As far as TMI: "On March 28, 1979, there was a cooling system malfunction that caused a partial melt-down of the reactor core. This loss of coolant accident resulted in the release of a significant amount of radioactivity, estimated at 43,000 curies (1.59 PBq) of radioactive krypton gas, but less than 20 curies (740 GBq) of the especially hazardous iodine-131, into the surrounding environment." Quoted for truth. now where's my tinfoil hat?
oh no kidding.
The nuclear plant is so far down the list as far as immediacy of pain, yet its getting the biggest coverage. 1.5 million without power, possibly as many displaced that are known.
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