Low runoff room is not your friend.
The Nordschleife is composed of these two things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfHJCv_S6iI
Is it just me or did the little blue Opel near the start squish like a rubber dog toy when it hit the barrier?
Look at that bastard in the white and orange Porsche at 5:09, followed by another one in a plain white Porsche.
Damn, watching everyone make the same mistakes coming out of Brunnchen 2 over and over was painful. Even the rental companies will tell you "use the bricks and don't let off the gas!"
Look at that bastard in the white and orange Porsche at 5:09, followed by another one in a plain white Porsche.
Those were legal moves. In the ADAC races, the slower cars can get in trouble for cutting in on the racing line of faster cars.
myself, mad machine, old tin, etc should ge glad to see no less than 3 e36 hatchbacks in there
sobe_death wrote: "use the bricks and don't let off the gas!"
Can you explain that statement to me?
In reply to Sky_Render:
Use the full width of the track and don't abruptly lift off the gas and go for the brakes.......if this is the corner I think it is, there is a bit of an elevation change and it isn't banked.
If you were to lift off the gas, you will spin/lose the back.....if you didn't lift, you'd probably go through it just fine.....despite sounding like Darrell Waltrip riding in the aussie v8 supercar.
Sky_Render wrote:sobe_death wrote: "use the bricks and don't let off the gas!"Can you explain that statement to me?
I think the idea is the difference between the S2000 drivers (spin the car into the wall and destroy it) and the new scirocco driver (keep your foot down and drive away with just a couple scrape marks), except staying out of the dirt would be the preferred result.
To add insult to injury for some of these, I belive you are still responsible for fixing damage to the Armco from your own mistakes. A couple of big bills just got bigger.
"...despite sounding like Darrell Waltrip riding in the aussie v8 supercar."
I never saw that...good fun.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: To add insult to injury for some of these, I belive you are still responsible for fixing damage to the Armco from your own mistakes. A couple of big bills just got bigger.
Yup. And it ain't cheap. When I rented a car to run the Ring, they informed us that, although we had limited liability to them to pay for damage to the car, the track would charge the ever loving crap out of us for damaging the rails.
Also... this is why I went on a weekday: less traffic of limited skill and oversight.
Yep, most turned in WAY too early. That is the trouble with decreasing radius corners, they really require you to apex LAAAAAAAATE and most people just can't do that without a ton of training.
Then when they realize that they've blown the corner, they let off the gas and the rear end comes around (or continues coming around). The few FWD's that just let the car go into the gravel with their foot in it, didn't get nearly as damaged as the ones that spun into the wall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xwc54G2Ur8
It was worse when half the track was rear engined swing axle cars.
PHeller wrote: "...despite sounding like Darrell Waltrip riding in the aussie v8 supercar." I never saw that...good fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLkLtBkUVuo
I was contemplating posting that with my comment.....but decided most had probably seen it by now. I was wrong, thanks for the cleanup ranger 
yamaha wrote: In reply to Sky_Render: Use the full width of the track and don't abruptly lift off the gas and go for the brakes.......if this is the corner I think it is, there is a bit of an elevation change and it isn't banked.
Is that the one after you come out of the little downhill twisties, there's a left onto an uphill straight and then this corner? In sims I give the car extra gas like I'm trying to make it understeer, the back usually comes out a little and I countersteer through it.
The shape of the corner really makes cars want to slide towards the inside, you have to late apex and then plow through it.
turboswede wrote: Yep, most turned in WAY too early. That is the trouble with decreasing radius corners, they really require you to apex LAAAAAAAATE and most people just can't do that without a ton of training. Then when they realize that they've blown the corner, they let off the gas and the rear end comes around (or continues coming around). The few FWD's that just let the car go into the gravel with their foot in it, didn't get nearly as damaged as the ones that spun into the wall.
Oftentimes you still hit a corner with a blind exit (maybe the corner is blind and/or there is a crest that blocks the view of the exit) and may or may not be decreasing radius. If you're not familiar with that turn, wait to fully accelerate out until you can actually see the exit. If you turn in too early, just go neutral throttle and hug the inside or straiten, slow, and turn in again to create a second apex. When approaching an unfamiliar turn, this is my general strategy. I know that it will almost never be the fastest way through that turn, but it keeps the car and driver in one piece to progressively ramp up how aggressively you attack the turn on subsequent attempts.
It does not take a lot of special skill or training to say "I don't know where my track out point is. Therefor I can not accelerate towards it yet."
I started off driving it as if it were a one way toll road with no way of knowing what was round the next corner, which is what it is, so I always had the ability to stop no matter what. Next laps were with a guy who had well over 1,000 laps under his belt and could shout braking and turn in points to keep me safe. I"d never attack it like a regular track day.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: I started off driving it as if it were a one way toll road with no way of knowing what was round the next corner, which is what it is, so I always had the ability to stop no matter what. Next laps were with a guy who had well over 1,000 laps under his belt and could shout braking and turn in points to keep me safe. I"d never attack it like a regular track day.
+1
My strategy too. The road is still so awesome for this to not significantly diminish fun. Wish I could have had a 1,000+ lap guy with me.
Basically the corner starts out like a mini version of Turn 1 at Road Atlanta: Uphill, with some positive banking at the apex. But as you exit uphill, the banking disappears and the track out area is actually slightly off-camber.
In general, positive cambered corners create lots of grip and cars will tend to oversteer more than they usually do, while off-camber corners create more understeer. So it's the worst of all possible worlds for an inexperienced driver to make a mistake: Car goes in and feels like it's sticking great, so they increase speed. But when they reach the limit, they're rewarded with oversteer instead of the understeer they're used to, so they back off, and by the time they gather the car up they're over the crest and headed toward the wall. So they try to steer, but the road falls away so the steering has less response than they're used to, so they understeer off the outside, or go into a weird tankslapper like that Mini.
And, yeah, a LOT of people overdrive their skills and the conditions there. Especially at that part of the track, because you're getting toward the end of a lap, and if you've made it that far a certain amount of confidence starts to creep into your head.
jg
So I just got to the Del Sol that tried to be a badass and pass the Mustang going into the turn, I laughed when he wrecked and the Mustang went on its merry way.
Sky_Render wrote:sobe_death wrote: "use the bricks and don't let off the gas!"Can you explain that statement to me?
The bricks to the outside, before the curbing. Most of the cars that spun to the inside were visibly aiming to avoid those bricks. LOTS of people assume that they are off track and that they will crash if they drive on them. I sat at this corner and watched lots of people do the very same thing, though nobody tagged the Armco that day.
BTW, if you do damage the Armco, you're looking at about 2,000 Euro minimum, not including vehicle costs. Track closure for repairs costs something like 1,400 per hour. 
I would at least ask for the damaged Armco that I just bought for a souvenir.
All I can add is that the only time that I ever went down while riding a motorcycle on the street, it was in a reducing radius curve
If I hadn't target fixated on the gravel that I was heading toward, I probably could have ridden it out
All I can add is that the only time that I ever went down while riding a motorcycle on the street, it was in a reducing radius curve If I hadn't target fixated on the gravel that I was heading toward, I probably could have ridden it out
All I can add is that the only time that I ever went down while riding a motorcycle on the street, it was in a reducing radius curve If I hadn't target fixated on the gravel that I was heading toward, I probably could have ridden it out
Three times no less......
You'll need to log in to post.
