I am looking to replace my gas furnace and electric central air forced air. I was considering a forced air residential gas electric heat pump. Does anyone have any experience with a residential heat pump? How did it compare to a gas furnace cost wise? Any other related knowledge, would also be appreciated!
Bonus points if you have any knowledge of heat pump hot water tanks, dryers, and or fridges.
In reply to drsmooth :
I think your location will greatly affect the answers. IIRC heat pumps only work down to certain low temps.
In reply to Stampie :
I am in Southern Ontario, but a particularly temperate part of it due to being wedged between 2 great lakes, it doesn't often get below 18F although occasionally it does get below that. I was hoping to get one with a gas burner option to make up for the really cold days.
IIRC newer (inverter?) heat pumps work down to surprisingly low temperatures. Also depends if you're talking air-to-air or the ones that use coolant-to-air (the ones that need coolant lines and holes drilled into your yard and all that).
We have "conventional" heat pumps and an oil burner as backup. It works surprisingly well as a system, but they switch over to oil at about 0C. Either way, they're saving us a bunch of money on heating oil.
I would definitely keep some sort of fossil fuel burner as backup for really cold days as there usually comes a point where it's simply cheaper to burn fossil fuels than let the heat pump try to find a little bit of heat to transfer into the house.
I can't speak to what the circumstances are in Canada, but we recently priced out a whole-home replacement for A/C and Furnace in southeast Michigan. Costs broke down like this:
Keep in mind there are US government incentives on the heat pumps, about 26% this year.
My understanding is that heat pumps cost quite a bit more to run in the winter but save money in the summer. Geothermal is more efficient than air-source. Heat pumps really rely upon a tightly sealed and insulated home to work well, much more so than a gas furnace, so figure those costs in as well.
This is the business that I'm in. My following advice is general and does not take in regional variations:
-A Heat pump is basically an air conditioner that can run in reverse, so whether an air conditioner or a heat pump is more efficient in cooling mode has nothing to do with the type of equipment that they are, but there is a big range in efficiencies out there from a minimum of 14 SEER to close to 30.
-A heat pump requires a greater airflow level per btu. Why this is important is that if your duct system is sized for gas heat, making it work with a heat pump may make for high sound levels, as the airflow rates will be significantly higher.
- There's a strong "green" movement away from fossil fuels where I live. For those who can afford it, I push hybrid systems - particularly if they also have solar panels. So in cooling and moderate heating, it runs all electric (not to be confused with resistance heat, which sucks), and when they really need additional heat and the heat pump is inadequate, the gas heat kicks in. It's a great way to go.
-The HVAC industry is going through an upheaval now. In the last few years people have realized that the Asians make much better air-to-air heat pumps than we do. They are generally quieter, more efficient, more compact, and variable capacity. So whereas most domestic heat pumps are still on/off or sometimes two-stage, pretty well all Asian brands are modulating, which makes a lot of sense. Ever tried driving a car with a flip-switch for a throttle? So what's happening is partnerships. Trane/American Standard is in bed with Mitsubishi, Goodman just built a massive factory with Daikin, and Carrier/Bryant has a Chinese manufacturer pumping out a lot of their high-end products. So as a consumer, you have a lot more options, which is mainly a good thing.
I’m in the business on the commercial side. Electric utility rates vary greatly depending on how it’s generated by region. Here in the NE US we use primarily natural gas and our rates are significantly higher as a result . The utility rate will affect payback time. The electric utility may offer rebates to help offset the higher equipment cost so be sure to see what’s available.
The high SEER inverter heat pump systems are very efficient both in cooling and heating but be aware they require very sophisticated electronics to make them operate properly. Make sure to check how long the manufacturer covers electronic parts as control boards can be very expensive out of warranty. Given the amount of electronics involved I don’t think you should expect 20-25 year life cycles that were common in the past either.
Even the “hyper heat ” versions of the heat pumps have a definite lower limit temperature that when reached will cause the unit to shut off. This varies with the manufacturer but is generally between 0 to -5F. While way better than conventional air source heat pumps (30 F is usually about the lowest they’ll work) if you live in an area where low temperatures are possible you’ll need a backup source of heat that will add cost and complexity.
As mentioned above a tight envelope and proper insulation are very important as well.
I appreciate all the replies and all the information provided! I'm sure I will probably have more questions after doing some more research.
One question I do have now does anyone have any experience with heat pump appliances? Fridge, hot water tank, dryer?
The heat pump water heaters seem to work fine, but boy are they expensive! I wouldn't touch one without a subsidy. And remember, a conventional water heater works regardless of available electricity. Not so with a heat pump. Can't speak to the other appliances.
Pertinent to my interests, as always these days.
As I mentioned in my "fireplace" thread, my hydronic radiant system isn't passing the wife's muster. Too many cold mornings.
I'm always curious about hyrbid gas/electric heat pumps, especially for water, or in compact application.
What are the options for:
Gas/Electric Heat Pump Hot Water Heater?
Gas/Electric Heat Pump Furnace/Air Handler?
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