Roof time - that'll blow the budget

Oh goody. Looking into the back yard last night I see bits of pink fiberglass. Uh oh. Go into the yard, fervently hoping the neighbor was building something. Nope.

There's the old satellite dish hanging by its wires. Oh goody, I hope this doesn't mean what I think it means.

Go up onto the roof and look. Drat, the dish didn't just rip its bolts out of the plywood, it ripped the plywood itself out. Because its rotted. Great.

That would explain why the gutter tore off this winter, and took some of the flashing. I'd hoped it was just snow, but I didn't think so.

Can't wait to see what this is going to cost me. A carpenter and roofer I am not. I don't think I can casually do this one myself.

foxtrapper wrote: Can't wait to see what this is going to cost me. A carpenter and roofer I am not. I don't think I can casually do this one myself.

My BIL is a licensed and insured builder / home improvement guy in the Fredneck / Hagerstucky area. I'll PM you his name and number. IDK if he's taking roofing jobs at this time but it can't hurt to ask. I know things have been slow.

I'd almost be willing to come to MD...

SVreX wrote: I'd almost be willing to come to MD...

Maryland has some rugged contractors license laws. Not a good idea to do a big job like a roof without local papers. Don't remember if they do reciprocity.

Boy, thank you AngryCorvair for the contact lead, and SVreX for the offer.

cwh wrote:

SVreX wrote: I'd almost be willing to come to MD...

Maryland has some rugged contractors license laws. Not a good idea to do a big job like a roof without local papers. Don't remember if they do reciprocity.

Yeah, but 2 friends can always work on projects.

carguy123 wrote:

cwh wrote:

SVreX wrote: I'd almost be willing to come to MD...

Maryland has some rugged contractors license laws. Not a good idea to do a big job like a roof without local papers. Don't remember if they do reciprocity.

Yeah, but 2 friends can always work on projects.

Exactly.

I've spent plenty of time in the business (including the NorthEast). Contractor laws aren't any harder to work around than Challenge rules.

Get a bunch of estimates. I phoned six contactors and only three bothered to show up. Two stood on the street and gave me estimates, one telling me I needed at least five more roof vents. The last guy actually got up on the roof and took measurements. He then offered me shingle choices and told me that I didn't need the extra five vents. His price was also the best and he had a reputation for honesty and good work. Guess who I went with? It pays to shop around.

Ummm, OK.

But did you know that 3 tab shingles are installed with a 5" exposure, and each tab is 12"?

I can measure a roof from the street without ever climbing on top.

A customer who gets 6 estimates to me is one who is not really serious about working with me. They are almost always shopping price only. There are plenty of fly-by-nights willing to underbid jobs, so the only way for me to get that job is give a price that I will loose money on.

My reputation stands for itself, and anyone who wants to do their homework and ask around can find out everything they need to know about me.

If they want quality, they won't have 6 estimates. They'll FIRST decide who they want to work with (because they know the job will be done right), then have only 2 or 3 estimates.

I don't waste a lot of time with some shoppers.

Had good work done by some people in Grantsville but htat' another 2 counties west.

SVreX wrote: Ummm, OK. But did you know that 3 tab shingles are installed with a 5" exposure, and each tab is 12"? I can measure a roof from the street without ever climbing on top. A customer who gets 6 estimates to me is one who is not really serious about working with me. They are almost always shopping price only. There are plenty of fly-by-nights willing to underbid jobs, so the only way for me to get that job is give a price that I will loose money on. My reputation stands for itself, and anyone who wants to do their homework and ask around can find out everything they need to know about me. If they want quality, they won't have 6 estimates. They'll FIRST decide who they want to work with (because they know the job will be done right), then have only 2 or 3 estimates. I don't waste a lot of time with some shoppers.

You know the business and what work it will take, the customer does not. They have to shop to see what they can learn before they can make an educated decision.

carguy is right. You are not only shopping for a price, but you are also looking for the company that cares to do the job correctly. One way to do this is to see if the guy actually cares enough about getting the job to estimate it correctly. I had to go through more than six guys before I found one that could correct some water issues around my foundation last year stemming from an underground spring.

Just getting guys to show up was a real problem, and the estimates they gave were all over the place. The guy that showed up, did the measuring, priced out everything with the exact stuff I wanted and seemed to care got the job. He was far from the cheapest, but he was the most thorough, and seemed to know more about how to actually run a business and keep his customers satisfied and "in the loop."

Getting an estimate is far, far, far from shopping for the cheapest price.

In reply to SVreX:

You're taking this a bit personal aren't you? My comments weren't directed to you. I was only telling the OP what worked best for me.

Ask to see some of the contractors previous work and talk w/ the homeowners if possible. If the contractor is that good you will know it. Same w/ a disgruntled owner, they won't hold anything back.

fasted58 wrote: Ask to see some of the contractors previous work and talk w/ the homeowners if possible. If the contractor is that good you will know it. Same w/ a disgruntled owner, they won't hold anything back.

+5!

TR8owner wrote: In reply to SVreX: You're taking this a bit personal aren't you? My comments weren't directed to you. I was only telling the OP what worked best for me.

Nope. Not a bit personal.

I'm just sharing the other side.

Most contractors I know do not take a customer seriously who asks for 6 different bidders. I realize this is sometimes the process homeowners choose to go through, but they are not doing their homework very well, and it can backfire.

I recommend asking for referrals LONG before asking for bids. Whatever type of work you are wanting to get done, you should be able to ask friends, building suppliers, inspectors, better business bureau, Angie's List, etc. for referrals to qualified contractors capable of doing the work.

Once you have identified several, ask them for bids.

"Free estimates" are not free. They cost me a LOT of money. Customers who do not respect that are likely to be people who do not respect my need to run my business in a fair and profitable manner, and they are the same people who will be seeking to take advantage of me every step of the way.

35 years of experience has shown ZERO good relations with a customer who asked for 6 different bids.

I'm not taking it personally. I'm trying to help folks realize that they are setting themselves up for trouble if that is their approach.

In reply to SVreX:

The problem is, what you are saying is not what most people are told to do.

We are going through this now for my g/f's addition/expansion and have had a similar experience as TR8owner so far, so what you are saying makes sense now although I don't know if I agree with it. She had a hell of a time getting contractors to show up. So far, only one of them seems interested in doing the job and actually listened to her and what she wants. His estimate seems in line with what we were expecting and also with what her architectural coworkers feel is a reasonable $/sq ft. Everyone else who has even bothered has given estimates far higher and seem very high for what is essentially an unfinished shell with roofing and siding.

It's tough for us, since we are in the construction business (although we don't do residential work) and it's hard as hell not to say too much (seems best if I'm not around at all). She had an architect she works with draw up some CAD sketches and had a structural engineer do some foundation analysis and do some CAD sketches as well.

Of course, being in this business, she has absolutely zero trust in contractors and she assumes they are all crooks working with the mob (she is in NJ...).

I'm afraid i don't see the problem here... i don't fixate on the first car i find and end up buying it well... ever.

get references then get three bids.

I used to this all the time when I worked at the plant.

Ian F wrote: Of course, being in this business, she has absolutely zero trust in contractors and she assumes they are all crooks working with the mob (she is in NJ...).

Perhaps, therein lies the problem.

I am from NJ. I know trustworthy contractors in NJ, none of whom work for the mob.

Like Iggy said- get references first, then 3 bids.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I'm afraid i don't see the problem here... i don't fixate on the first car i find and end up buying it well... ever.

Yeah, but you don't ask a car salesman to spend anywhere from 4- 40 hours working on a price for you for free, either.

All contractors must weigh their opportunities. If they (accurately) bid every job that comes along, they will certainly go bankrupt.

So, when I get a call from a person who found my name in the yellow pages, isn't willing to spend any money preparing plans, hasn't researched who is available and qualified, and tells me he's already got 6 prices, I don't waste my time.

When I get a call that says, "Mr. Smith (a very good customer) recommended I call you because he said I could trust you to do this job well", my ears perk up.

BTW- a high price is a contractor's way of saying he doesn't want the job.

All contractors want to work. If they are not returning your calls, or giving you quick prices that seem unreasonably high, they are concerned about loosing their shirt on your job. You are communicating to them that you will be difficult to please, or cost them a lot of money, and they are communicating back that they don't want the job.

Most of you have never done a job for free, or worse, paid out of your pocket for the opportunity to do several weeks or months worth of work for someone else. Most contractors have experienced this many times.

I'm really not trying to be a butthead. I'm trying to give some insight as to how to get the best job at a fair price.

SVreX wrote: Ummm, OK. But did you know that 3 tab shingles are installed with a 5" exposure, and each tab is 12"? I can measure a roof from the street without ever climbing on top. A customer who gets 6 estimates to me is one who is not really serious about working with me. They are almost always shopping price only. There are plenty of fly-by-nights willing to underbid jobs, so the only way for me to get that job is give a price that I will loose money on. My reputation stands for itself, and anyone who wants to do their homework and ask around can find out everything they need to know about me. If they want quality, they won't have 6 estimates. They'll FIRST decide who they want to work with (because they know the job will be done right), then have only 2 or 3 estimates. I don't waste a lot of time with some shoppers.

Really? You might have laser vision and can judge a roofs dimensions from the street, but i want someone I'm hiring to put in some effort to build my trust. I get multiple estimates not because I want the cheapest, I just want to find out what is the average price. I throw out the outliers, then look into there reputation. I want good work, at a fair price. Not necessarily good work at a high price.

Joey

In reply to SVreX:

I can understand in your business how you could get irked by tire kickers - but well I'll give you another example. One time I wanted a driveway expansion with gravel. Nothing special, just gravel from the pit and rolled flat. I asked three guys and the most expensive guy was nearly double the lowest guy. In this case we weren't talking work quality as they all got the gravel from the same place and it was no issue to drop it off and run a roller over it. They'd all do the same thing.

The moral of the story - sometimes it definately pays to shop around.

Did the same thing with carpet layers. The only difference was in this case I got ticked off with them and did the job myself, but that's an entirely different story.

SVreX wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I'm afraid i don't see the problem here... i don't fixate on the first car i find and end up buying it well... ever.

Yeah, but you don't ask a car salesman to spend anywhere from 4- 40 hours working on a price for you for free, either. All contractors must weigh their opportunities. If they (accurately) bid every job that comes along, they will certainly go bankrupt. So, when I get a call from a person who found my name in the yellow pages, isn't willing to spend any money preparing plans, hasn't researched who is available and qualified, and tells me he's already got 6 prices, I don't waste my time. When I get a call that says, "Mr. Smith (a very good customer) recommended I call you because he said I could trust you to do this job well", my ears perk up. BTW- a high price is a contractor's way of saying he doesn't want the job. All contractors want to work. If they are not returning your calls, or giving you quick prices that seem unreasonably high, they are concerned about loosing their shirt on your job. You are communicating to them that you will be difficult to please, or cost them a lot of money, and they are communicating back that they don't want the job. Most of you have never done a job for free, or worse, paid out of your pocket for the opportunity to do several weeks or months worth of work for someone else. Most contractors have experienced this many times. I'm really not trying to be a butthead. I'm trying to give some insight as to how to get the best job at a fair price.

I understand your viewpoint, and it's valid for sure.... i just still don't understand what was done wrong, here...

He's about to shell out a buttload of money, i hardly think that researching and getting quotes for said service is a bad thing. He has needs in his head about all this, and no matter if they're unwarranted or not, he's not going to go with someone that doesn't deliver. (Example: measuring roof in a way that he can see what's going on vs. eyeballing from the street.)

Completely stupid example, but if i'm looking to buy an E30, but ONLY from someone who ate only McDonald's french fries in the car (Burger King NOT acceptable), and i'm offered a car with a Burger King fry in it, i'm not going to buy it. Yes, it's pointless, and stupid from someone on the other end, but that person still isn't satisfying my needs, and i'm not going to pay for them.

If every contractor got every job they quoted on, there wouldn't be competition. The work is nature of the beast.

SVreX wrote: Perhaps, therein lies the problem. I am from NJ. I know trustworthy contractors in NJ, none of whom work for the mob. Like Iggy said- get references first, then 3 bids.

I have no doubt about that. In the same way doctors are the worst patients, engineers are PITA customers. Especially when said engineer is a woman and she assumes all men talk down to her (I often have to walk away so that men will talk to her and not me).

She tried getting references. She even tried to get a contractor a friend of ours used for his addition. She spent a lot of time working out demolition and new floor plans, elevations, sections... All in PDF format for easy e-mailing (this is what we do for a living...). yet getting anyone to even talk to her was like pulling teeth.