Certainly could have been worse (my best friend/roommate slept with my fiance, that was a rough period of time). Glad its worked out and that all involved handled it maturely. Keep the lines of communication open and you should get through the next few months relatively unscathed.
Lesley wrote: Sounds like you handled it in a grown-up manner. I think you and your friend are just incompatible - I don't see any point in (as others have mentioned) burning bridges when you leave. You're both trying to get along, but it's not a perfect situation for either one of you. But after you've found a better solution, you can at least pat yourself on the back for having done the right thing – and still kept a friend.
On this point, we're both in slightly similar situations--"home" is 3 hours away for both of us, we graduated in the same major, and then both found jobs in the same town that we went to school. We were the only two to stick around, and both were looking for cheap housing, (me just for cheap housing, him for some ease on his mortgage). I'll still enjoy watching football games with him for the next 5-6 months that I'm living there.
turboswede wrote: Certainly could have been worse (my best friend/roommate slept with my fiance, that was a rough period of time).
turboswede wrote: Certainly could have been worse (my best friend/roommate slept with my fiance, that was a rough period of time).
Hey I had the same thing happen! They both got kicked to the curb.
mtn wrote:turboswede wrote: Certainly could have been worse (my best friend/roommate slept with my fiance, that was a rough period of time).
Yeah, she moved in with us when he and I were sharing an apartment after high school. We were all high school friends, she and his girlfriend were on the dance team together (cheer leaders ain't got anything on Dance Team girls, BTW). One night they were hanging out and were going to go play pool while I was at work. Instead they got drunk and well, she wasn't sure if she wanted to sleep with him or if he raped her because she blacked out. To this day, I don't know who to believe, but I couldn't deal with him betraying me like that.
I knew he was a horny bastard and would sleep with anything in a skirt if given the chance, but he'd never made any moves on women I was seeing, even after we broke up. He'd also sworn to me that he'd never do anything like that because he valued our friendship too much. Needless to say we confronted him, kicked him out and also told his girlfriend who dumped him as well. Eventually she left me for another guy from her school after I worked my ass off to pay for it, so yeah who knows what the real truth was.
If I had it to do again, I'd have left them all behind and gotten on with my life, I would have been happier and more successful since I could have afforded to go to school and do some racing in my 20's. Instead I paid for her to go to school and then leave me hanging with no one to support me while I went to school and no savings.
So yeah, that was a rough period of my life and I still have trouble trusting people to this day.
Like I said, it could have been worse.
The unfortunate aspect of this situation is the renter always wants your rent but wishes the lessee would never be home. Ever. The lessee wonders why the renter has objections to weekly ritual animal sacrifices on the white carpet.
In this situation, everything is a compromise. The lessee is not a guest. He is a paying member of the household. Therefore he has certain rights and privileges not expected for guests that must be hammered out in advance of occupancy so there's no conflict later in the tenancy.
The renter must give up some privacy and compromise on other issues in advance of occupancy if he values the equity provided by the lessee.
Prior friendship is no guarantee of, and is not a substitute for complete satisfaction in a renter /lessee relationship. Your renter has to understand he can't be a complete tight-ass about everything, including imposing his morals on his lessee. Otherwise, he'll never keep a lessee and will consume huge amounts of time and money searching constantly for lessees to replace the ones he's completely pissed off.
The County of Los Angeles considers a "visitor" to be a "roommate" after 11 straight days of occupancy. Therefore, the renter can ask for additional compensation because of the additional wear and tear on the property. So setting up ground rules around your girlfriend's visits or additional compensation (this could be chores or other work to improve the property) should she stay longer might stabilize that situation. As long as your renter (and his girlfriend) knows he's never going to have a second de facto "roommate," he should be okay.
As far as the shoes go, don't sweat the small stuff. If your renter doesn't want 'em in the entryway, carry 'em to your closet. You have a right to store them there. That's an area where he has to compromise. If the shoe thing makes him happy, consider yourself lucky. It will contribute to his overall feeling of well-being and make your life easier.
Jerry
Former rental property manager 11 years
Sidebar: The fiance has a moral issue with you girlfriend staying over, but is living with your friend? Pot, meet kettle.
You need: "The Roommate Agreement"
http://bigbangtheory.wikia.com/wiki/The_Roommate_Agreement
DaveEstey wrote:turboswede wrote: Certainly could have been worse (my best friend/roommate slept with my fiance, that was a rough period of time).Hey I had the same thing happen! They both got kicked to the curb.
Been there. (Not on the curb, that is.)
bgkast wrote: Sidebar: The fiance has a moral issue with you girlfriend staying over, but is living with your friend? Pot, meet kettle.
No, she does not live with us. Short of a snow storm, I don't see her spending the night here until the night of their wedding.
Jerry From LA wrote: The unfortunate aspect of this situation is the renter always wants your rent but wishes the lessee would never be home. Ever. The lessee wonders why the renter has objections to weekly ritual animal sacrifices on the white carpet.
Luckily enough, neither one of us are home that often. Both of us are busy quite often. And funny that you mention the white carpet--that is the reason of the shoe issue. Otherwise they wouldn't come off until I was in my room, and they would never end up in the garage. (We both hate the white carpet, but hey, it came with the house)
In this situation, everything is a compromise. The lessee is not a guest. He is a paying member of the household. Therefore he has certain rights and privileges not expected for guests that must be hammered out in advance of occupancy so there's no conflict later in the tenancy.
I agree. But we didn't have a lease anyways, and I just assumed that an occasional overnight guest was acceptable, because... well why the hell wouldn't it be?
The renter must give up some privacy and compromise on other issues in advance of occupancy if he values the equity provided by the lessee.
Yep, I realize this and am fine with most of it, the point of this thread the exception.
Prior friendship is no guarantee of, and is not a substitute for complete satisfaction in a renter /lessee relationship. Your renter has to understand he can't be a complete tight-ass about everything, including imposing his morals on his lessee. Otherwise, he'll never keep a lessee and will consume huge amounts of time and money searching constantly for lessees to replace the ones he's completely pissed off.
Short of something odd happening, I will be his first and last lessee, at least in a house that he also lives in. This was known before I even started living with him. And he did admit that he can't impose his morals upon me, so we're good on that front :)
The County of Los Angeles considers a "visitor" to be a "roommate" after 11 straight days of occupancy. Therefore, the renter can ask for additional compensation because of the additional wear and tear on the property. So setting up ground rules around your girlfriend's visits or additional compensation (this could be chores or other work to improve the property) should she stay longer might stabilize that situation. As long as your renter (and his girlfriend) knows he's never going to have a second de facto "roommate," he should be okay.
See, this is what really confuses me about the whole thing--I've lived here since May. My girlfriend has stayed 2 times for a total of 3 nights, and she has been the only overnight visitor I have had. And he said he doesn't have any problem with her, she hasn't made any messes (she is cleaner than me), etc. This is why I honestly, still, believe it is the Fiance pushing this from a moral/religious perspective.
As far as the shoes go, don't sweat the small stuff. If your renter doesn't want 'em in the entryway, carry 'em to your closet. You have a right to store them there. That's an area where he has to compromise. If the shoe thing makes him happy, consider yourself lucky. It will contribute to his overall feeling of well-being and make your life easier. Jerry Former rental property manager 11 years
I'm not. I wouldn't even mention them, or the liquor, if it weren't for this.
Find the tenant laws for your county and see if there's anything about length of visitor stay. Show your renter the law and make that your benchmark. Visitor cohabitation is not against the law anywhere. You are a tenant-at-will. It doesn't matter what the girlfriend wants. You are protected by local tenant law. Yes, it may make for bad feelings but she has no legal say in anything that goes on.
Your renter accepted you as a rent-paying lessee so you are both bound by your local tenant laws. Those laws have been shaped by 100 years of tenant-renter conflict so they should be pretty good.
Jerry From LA wrote: Find the tenant laws for your county and see if there's anything about length of visitor stay. Show your renter the law and make that your benchmark. Visitor cohabitation is not against the law anywhere. You are a tenant-at-will. It doesn't matter what the girlfriend wants. You are protected by local tenant law. Yes, it may make for bad feelings but she has no legal say in anything that goes on. Your renter accepted you as a rent-paying lessee so you are both bound by your local tenant laws. Those laws have been shaped by 100 years of tenant-renter conflict so they should be pretty good.
I'll look it up, but I think that it is going to be "if she can't stay, I'm gonna leave". If an issue ever arises again, I'll just find a new place. I'd rather not deal with the fallout; it is just easier that way. Especially because our lease is "$400 sound good? Works for me", plus half utilites.
You are a tenant-at-will. You don't need a lease. You're paying rent and have the receipts / cancelled checks to prove it, right?
If the stay /leave scenario works like you think it will, your renter can tell his girl, "I can't kick him out. I'm legally bound to honor the law." I can't viol;ate his rights." Believe me, your renter wants to have both your money and his girlfriend, though he would probably be better off without the latter. 
I'm with mtn at this point- he's got a sweet gig, likes the guy, doesn't want to rock the boat. If he's cool with the way things worked (warn me if you're gonna hump and all that) why change it. Guy owns the house, he has freedom to make some rules.
Guy rents from owner, has rights. If you read the previous posts, I said compromise is important. Nobody likes an armed camp, no matter what the law says. I believe, as mtn does, the objections stem from the renter's girlfriend. As a renter, mtn has a right to have visitors, provided they conform to the local law of what defines a "visit."
I advised mtn to check the local laws and share them with his renter. I believe the renter wants to keep the arrangement as is. If both know the law, the girlfriend can be informed that it doesn't matter about anyone's opinion. The renter can find himself in court if he does not obey the law.
However, I don't believe it will get that far. mtn might leave first. However, if mtn's current situation is financially advantageous enough, or if he can't find another decent setup, he might opt to stay. That is his right. So the renter is in a penalty situation if he evicts his lessee for no good reason.
Compromise is the order of the day. The renter's girlfriend has to cool her jets. mtn should be respectful of any excessive noise / mess when his girlfriend visits. The visits should not exceed x number of days (they could always hit a motel for a couple extra nights).
Sorry, mtn. We're discussing you like you're not here.
mtn wrote: Well, talked to the roommate. Went much better than expected. He told me it was him, not the fiance with the issues (I'm skeptical), and said that he honestly just doesn't feel comfortable with people around (doesn't surprise me, we're both somewhat introverted). I agreed that it is his house, and therefore his rules, per se, and he agreed that it would be ridiculous to have to pay for a hotel when I have a room that I am paying for. We also agreed to cut our cable package. We agreed to talk more on it, he has to think about it some more, but for now the solution is going to be "Hear no evil, see no evil"--I'll need to give him at least a couple days notice that she, or anyone else (my siblings for instance) is coming, and he'll be sure to try to schedule stuff away from the house when she, or anyone else, is here. No, it is not a perfect solution, and I'm not completely happy with it, but the fact is that she doesn't come over that often, and I'm saving enough money here (I'd be paying about 180-190%% of what I am now when all is said and done by moving out) that I can live with this for now (until May-ish at the latest). I am going to count this as a victory for now. Maintained the friendship, keeping the place (and low rent), and the garage spot, and the girlfriend still gets to come over. I made it clear, in no uncertain terms, that this is a non-negotiable issue for me. And the good news is that I do live in a college town and there are always folks looking for a sub-leaser if worst comes to worst.
you've mentioned his GF in some of the earlier posts... does she stay over ? does he stay over at her place ?
wbjones wrote: '' you've mentioned his GF in some of the earlier posts... does she stay over ? does he stay over at her place ?
First of all, it is his fiance. There is a difference, at least in my mind. And second of all, no. She does not stay over, and he does not stay with her. I wouldn't be surprised that when he was living [alone] 2 hours away and she visited if they slept in different rooms.
the question was for clarity .... to make sure there wasn't some kind of "do as I say, not as I do" 
calteg wrote: This. In college there was a series of escalations that ended up with me peeing in my best friends sink for weeks on end.
Read this just as Walter White peed in his own sink while watching Season 3 of Breaking Bad.
/Mind. Blown.
Based on what I am reading, I am betting you will probably never hang out with this guy after his wedding barring divorce a catastrophe that throws you together.
Glad to see you worked it out with him.
White carpets suck. The last place I rented had white carpet, and despite our best efforts, it was trashed when we moved out.
Replacement cost for 1200 square feet of carpet? $200, as we had lived there so long the depreciation of the asset from install was pretty much done.
Brett_Murphy wrote: Based on what I am reading, I am betting you will probably never hang out with this guy after his wedding barring divorce a catastrophe that throws you together. Glad to see you worked it out with him. White carpets suck. The last place I rented had white carpet, and despite our best efforts, it was trashed when we moved out. Replacement cost for 1200 square feet of carpet? $200, as we had lived there so long the depreciation of the asset from install was pretty much done.
We'll probably see each other a couple times a year for awhile, and at weddings of mutual friends, but yeah, it is definitely a friendship that will fade.
And the white carpets were installed by the PO of the house, just before he moved in. Stairs are already stained, and we have been pretty vigilant about no-shoes on them. I don't know why anyone would put white carpet down anywhere. I'm struggling to come up with a good spot for it. Maybe an office that is off of a bedroom. Once he gets married there will be a dog in the picture as well. I don't see it lasting a year after that.
Situation with the fiance reminds me a bit of an incident with a former roommate about 10 years ago that I'd largely forgotten about... new wife (I think they were married at the time) convinced him that all of his old college friends were 'poison' to his life and that he needed to cut all of us out of his life.
He informs everyone of this online via Livejournal (this WAS 10 years ago, remember... 
) and after most people going WTF? and trying to convince him otherwise, the wife pops and in goes on about how proud she is of him for putting this horrible and poisonous chapter of his life behind and basically stirs the pot, gets flamed by the others for it, and then uses said flaming as further justification for why she's right. 
Ashyukun wrote: Situation with the fiance reminds me a bit of an incident with a former roommate about 10 years ago that I'd largely forgotten about... new wife (I think they were married at the time) convinced him that all of his old college friends were 'poison' to his life and that he needed to cut all of us out of his life. He informs everyone of this online via Livejournal (this WAS 10 years ago, remember...
Wow. At least in my situation, I don't think she has a problem with either of us, just with a non-family female sleeping in her future home.
mtn wrote: Wow. At least in my situation, I don't think she has a problem with either of us, just with a non-family female sleeping in her future home.
Yeah, it was (and to some extent, still is...) pretty bad. Thinking and posting about this made me curious so I looked up and found that he's on FaceBook and is still married to the same woman. Have been debating whether or not to try sending him a friend request or not.
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