Toyman01
Toyman01 GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/22/12 9:01 p.m.

There are several articles on the internet about this. The differences between them are amazing.

Article one:

By MARK SHERMAN, Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court has sided with an Idaho couple in a property rights case, ruling they can go to court to challenge an Environmental Protection Agency order that blocked construction of their new home and threatened fines of more than $30,000 a day.

Wednesday's decision is a victory for Mike and Chantell Sackett, whose property near a scenic lake has sat undisturbed since the EPA ordered a halt in work in 2007. The agency said part of the property was a wetlands that could not disturbed without a permit.

In an opinion by Justice Antonin Scalia, the court rejected EPA's argument that allowing property owners quick access to courts to contest orders like the one issued to the Sacketts would compromise the agency's ability to deal with water pollution.

"Compliance orders will remain an effective means of securing prompt voluntary compliance in those many cases where there is no substantial basis to question their validity," Scalia said.

In this case, the couple objected to the determination that their small lot contained wetlands that are regulated by the Clean Water Act, and they complained there was no reasonable way to challenge the order without risking fines that can mount quickly.

The EPA issues nearly 3,000 administrative compliance orders a year that call on alleged violators of environmental laws to stop what they're doing and repair the harm they've caused. Major business groups, homebuilders, road builders and agricultural interests all have joined the Sacketts in urging the court to make it easier to contest EPA compliance orders issued under several environmental laws.

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said in a separate opinion that the only issue decided by the court Wednesday is the Sacketts' ability to contest the EPA finding that their property is subject to the Clean Water Act. The court did not decide largers issues, Ginsburg said.

"On that understanding, I join the court's opinion," she said

Article two:

A unanimous Supreme Court ruling yesterday in favor of Mike and Chantell Sackett marks a significant victory for private property advocates. It also represents one of the biggest wins for the Pacific Legal Foundation (PLF) in its 30-year history as a nonprofit law firm working to rollback environmental laws and advance a broad conservative agenda.

For the PLF, the story of an Idaho couple getting strong-armed by the Environmental Protection Agency while trying to build their dream home represented far more than the interests of a single family and their dashed American dream. It was textbook PLF.

For three decades the foundation has targeted environmental regulations. The Justice Department argued that it could tie up enforcement of wetland regulations in courts for years.

Damien Schif

The case fit with the PLF’s mission of defending personal property rights. It also offered an ideal chance to chip away at what Damien Schiff, lead attorney in the case, called a “significant expansion” of powers by the EPA and the Army Corps of Engineers over the past 25 years.

“Our mission is to protect private property rights,” Schiff recently told DCBureau.org. “It’s not surprising that we run up against the cause of the infringement which is usually an environmental regulation and more frequently dealing with wetlands.”

EPA inspectors halted construction in 2007 on the Sackett’s lakeside property because of a wetland designation. If they did not comply, the couple was subject to $75,000 fines per day. They sued the EPA essentially to challenge the compliance order, which they were previously denied. The Supreme Court’s ruling now makes such orders immediately subject to judicial review rather than after the enforcement action takes place.

The Justice Department in its argument defending the EPA said the case could allow corporations to tie up environmental orders in court. EPA issued more than 600 compliance orders under the Clean Water Act in 2010 and more than 1,300 overall. The real winners are the business interests – the mining, logging, real estate and oil companies that are most often affected by the Clean Water Act.

Schiff said the ruling Wednesday shows the EPA is not above the law. “That’s the bottom line with today’s ruling,” Schiff said in a written statement. “It is a great day for all Americans, for all property owners, and for the rule of law.”

“EPA can’t try to micromanage people and their property – it can’t order property owners to dance like marionettes – while denying them any meaningful right to appeal to the courts. It can’t threaten property owners with financial ruin and not have to justify its threats to a judge. And it can’t issue lazy, drive-by ‘wetlands’ edicts about private property. It will have to put in some honest work and use credible science, because the regulators must be able to justify their wetlands orders in a court of law.”

The Sackett's empty lot

The government had argued that giving property owners a hearing would limit the agency’s ability to immediately stop violators. But in the opinion written by Justice Antonin Scalia the court said it believed those abilities would still be preserved. Justice Samuel Alito in a joint opinion said it was “unthinkable” the Sacketts and other property owners could not sue the EPA. “In a nation that values due process, not to mention private property, such treatment is unthinkable,” Alito wrote.

Sympathies run deep

It is easy to feel sorry for the Sacketts, but far less deserving of sympathy are the corporations that stand to benefit from this and other cases PLF has advanced over the past 30 years. The firm got its start in the early 1970s with major victories in cases that benefited utility companies without representing them directly. It now employs 50 attorneys – five on environmental matters – with offices in four U.S. cities.

PLF files dozens of amicus briefs each year in favor of corporations such as Monsanto and Wal-Mart, arguing against everything from cattle rustling to affirmative action and the federal health reform law. Endangered species and wetlands are their two main environmental targets. They supported school voucher programs and the free speech rights of pharmaceutical companies.

For the corporations and individuals that donate to PLF, their contributions support a vital legal defense for their causes without having to wage battle themselves or even be named in a lawsuit. And they can do it anonymously. PLF discloses none of their donors either by request or on the nonprofit’s IRS 990 Forms.

Those forms do reveal, however, that PLF earned $14 million in 2010 – the most ever in its existence – and it spent about $7 million on expenses. Some of its revenues come from events such as its spring gala in April with a keynote address from conservative Fox News correspondent John Stossell.

In another landmark environmental case, PLF defended the mining company Couer Alaska in the Supreme Court over another case involving a wetland, this time in a remote section of southeast Alaska. The company won the case, which represented the first time in 30 years a mining company was allowed to turn a natural lake into a tailings pond.

Conservation groups are monitoring the effects of the waste pond at the Kensington Mine, but the site is very remote, says Lyndsey Ketchel, executive director of the Southeast Alaska Conservation Council.

“It’s not something you can go for a Sunday drive to see what’s happening,” Ketchel says. “It’s easier to take for granted when you see that vastness, but when you look at the world in general there are very few wild places. From many people’s perspective every development matters. My hope is the EPA understands it has an authority and should use it at appropriate times.”

She says the case was extremely divisive in the community.

“Most of the political leaders were in favor of Kensington being developed,” Ketchel says. “We and a couple of other groups were in negotiations with the mining company to avoid court. We had just won in appeals court. And it was when those negotiations fell apart the case got picked up by the Supreme Court.”

Targeting endangered species

PLF attorneys often take aim at the endangered species act, arguing against protecting lynx in Maine, polar bears in Alaska, sturgeon in California and a range of other threatened or endangered species. The reason is often that they infringe on someone’s ability to develop their property. Schiff said the firm seeks a balanced approach to environmental regulation.

“There’s absolutely no question that PLF stands for clean air and clean water,” Schiff said. “Our job is not to eliminate environmental regulation. I don’t know anyone who thinks it’s a good idea to dump sewage in rivers and eliminate various species to extinction for no good reason. The difficulty comes with who pays for it. So often individuals are disproportionately and unfairly baring the cost of environmental regulations.”

While PLF has had some notable success, much of its work ends with a whimper. In 2007 and 2008, PLF attorneys successfully compelled the Department of Fish and Wildlife to complete status reviews for all endangered species. But the results were less than impressive. The department determined six species, among them one fish and five plants, should be reclassified. Yet to date none have been removed from protected status.

Noah Greenwald, endangered species director for the Center for Biological Diversity, says the reevaluations turned out to be a good thing for species conservation because it actually strengthened the classifications in many cases.

“They are essentially using a law to protect an endangered species in order to weaken or loosen those protections,” Greenwald says. “They essentially try and argue that somehow people are threatened by these laws. I think the exact opposite is the truth. Protecting wetlands and protecting endangered species benefit us and future generations. It’s hard to think of something that’s been more beneficial to people than the Clean Water Act and the Clean Air Act.”

Jon Devine, senior attorney in the water program at the Natural Resources Defense Council, said, “The Supreme Court did not give anyone a license to pollute. Pure and simple. Those who pollute our waters will still be held accountable. Today’s decision affirmed the legal principle that the EPA under the Clean Water Act may issue compliance orders to promote speedy resolution of pollution problems. It grants recipients of such orders, at a time of their choosing, a day in court to challenge them. The court did not adopt any of the radical ideas advanced by industry and its allies that could have severely hampered public health and environmental protections.”

EPA’s Enesta Jones said, “EPA will of course fully comply with the Supreme Court’s decision, which the agency is still reviewing, as we work to protect clean water for our families and future generations by using the tools provided by Congress to enforce the Clean Water Act.”

Interesting how the articles differ.

One is from Fox, the other is from DC Bureau.

I didn't even consider posting the ones about "Obama's corrupt EPA" since this happened under Bush.

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon MegaDork
3/23/12 6:45 a.m.

Way back when (1980's), a farmer outside of Orangeburg SC was zapped with a cease and desist order from the EPA concerning drainage changes on his farm. It turns out the changes in question dated from the 1930's when the guy's dad owned and worked the farm, this guy repaired and rerouted part of it. No matter; the EPA demanded the changes be reversed or he would face stiff fines and penalties. I think it finally got fought to a draw.

Snail darters, anyone? http://www.foresthistory.org/ASPNET/Policy/northern_spotted_owl/1979owl.snaildarter.aspx

failboat
failboat Dork
3/23/12 7:09 a.m.

So wait...their property (or at least part of it) was designated as wetlands. Most county or jurisdictional agencies can provide you this information, and show you a map of its location. You can view flood zone maps on FEMA's website free of charge. If you want to build in designated wetlands area or flood zone, you usually have to submit plans showing the changes you want to make, get them approved, get permits, etc...

I agree the fines are over the top ridiculous, and its good that they are fighting them, but just because you own a piece of property doesnt necessarily mean you can do whatever the berkeley you want with it. Sounds like they may have got caught not following the rules.

Josh
Josh Dork
3/23/12 7:44 a.m.

I think the process for approval should be streamlined and it should be easier for people to get a quick, definitive answer as to what they can build, and agencies that give preliminary approval and then pull it back should be penalized, but if these people just started building somewhere without even checking, then berkeley 'em. They deserve whatever they get. Their "property rights" do not authorise them to destroy habitat of animals on their land, pollute streams that run through their land, etc. This falls under the principle of "your right to swing your fist ends at my face", because the things you do on your land can have long lasting negative effects on everyone else's land. Groups like the this PLF are basically fighting for the ability to keep swinging away without regard to what you hit.

I basically consider myself a libertarian, but I feel like a lot of them have huge problems with this concept. Freedom isn't just everyone doing whatever the berkeley they want all the time with no consequences, because in that system, your freedom would be under assault from anyone who decides to disregard your interests, not just the "evil big government".

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon MegaDork
3/23/12 8:07 a.m.

The flip side of the coin: in many cases someone will stall a project for their own reasons by dragging a wetland or riparian area designation into it. A high school expansion down here was stalled for 2 years by a school board member who claimed a drainage ditch which averaged ~1/2" of water in it should not have a pipe put down and then covered. The legal wrangling added $9.5 million to the cost of the project. http://www.thestate.com/2012/03/07/2181556/sc-supreme-court-rules-for-school.html

Wetlands designations have long been used to kill off various projects on public lands; it happened with a motorcycle trail project I was personally involved in. It comes down to this: if you don't want something done, demand that it be studied, thus introducing 'analysis paralysis'. By the way, 'wetlands' do NOT have to have standing water. They are defined by the type of plants found there.

At one point, wetlands were under the control of the Army Corps of Engineers as part of 'navigable waterways', that got rescinded several years ago much to the chagrin of the ecofreaks who were used to beating people over the head with the Corps.

Causing pollution is definitely an issue which affects those downstream. I do not advocate people running roughshod all over the environment. But there is a possibility of balance without resorting to ridiculously high fines, etc. There are also cases where one gov't entity has issued a permit only to have it rescinded by another AFTER construction etc has started.

Then there's the fairy shrimp: http://ucanr.org/repository/cao/landingpage.cfm?article=ca.v054n03p5&fulltext=yes

From that article:

'Federal actions to slow development of wetlands and vernal pools are occurring elsewhere. In November, a federal judge imposed a $1.5 million fine — the largest wetlands civil penalty ever imposed after trial by a U.S. court — against a Sacramento Valley developer who, in the process of converting nearly a thousand acres of wetlands into vineyards, destroyed two acres harboring threatened fairy shrimp. And in May the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency announced a $100,000 grant to protect Central Valley vernal pools from development.'

Fairy shrimp are on the endangered species list but every time you turn around they are used to stop or slow projects all over the place in California.

Pierson's milkvetch has been used to shut down OHV recreation in California. Never mind that the area has been used that way for 50 or so years and the plant still grows there.

http://www.citizenreviewonline.org/jan2004/milkvetch.htm

Abuse of the ESA is rampant. All it takes is to find some critter or plant, have it declared 'endangered' and then someone can shut down something they don't like. The repercussions can be devastating. It is possible, for instance, for a person who owns property which MIGHT be used by migratory birds to not be allowed to build a house, for instance. This can happen at any time, for instance if you inherit property and then decide to sell timber, build a house, etc nope can't do it. Worst of all: this amounts to a 'taking' of your land and you are not entitled to compensation. You get to pay taxes, get sued if someone gets hurt on your property etc, but the gummint won't let you use it as you see fit and won't compensate you for it.

icaneat50eggs
icaneat50eggs Reader
3/23/12 8:19 a.m.

why do you hate the environment? You probably club baby seals just for fun. (note the sarcasm font)

Also, FEMA flood zone /= wetland. Wetlands can be designated anywhere. If you go outside and spit, they can stretch the definition to make that a wetland.

Similar to the Spill prevention cleanup and countermeasures laws.

The law says oil must be able to reach navigable waters, and in the 40 years since it was introduced this has stretched to mean any piece of ground anywhere. Try explaining to a guy in Midland TX that his oil spill might reach navigable waters.

Toyman01
Toyman01 GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/23/12 8:43 a.m.

There in lies the problem. Building permits, from local government, were in hand with approved plans. Sewer and water taps were already paid for and installed. Construction had started according to the approved plans. Corps of Engineers had no listing of it being a wetlands. The EPA just arbitrarily decided it was and slapped them with a compliance order. Then EPA refused to have the case heard in court until after they had complied. How is that justice. Apparently the Supreme Court decided it wasn't.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/23/12 9:10 a.m.

I guess I am very pro-wetlands. It comes from living in southern NJ where you can't go 5 miles without winding up knee deep in them somewhere.

However, some things are very odd. I remember when I was living in PA.. one of the passing hurricanes (that always seem to damage PA more than NJ) wiped out the local dam.. the rebuild got shelved because somebody "saw" an endangered turtle that nobody has been able to find since

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess UltimaDork
3/23/12 9:30 a.m.

They tried the turtle thing in Arkansas with the Ivory Billed Woodpecker. Someone claimed they "saw" one, made some kind of really fuzzy recording that you couldn't tell anything from and then the commie pricks, I mean Agenda 21 Soros stooges, I mean environmentalists tried to use that to stop all access to the middle of nowhere, Arkansas. Not sure how that ever turned out. No one has ever seen an Ivory Billed Woodpecker since.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/23/12 10:04 a.m.

exactly.. I am all for protecting the enviroment.. we only have one! But when people start "finding" things to keep building from being done... shame on them.

While your Arkansis thing can be understandable.. it was new construction, The thing in PA was to fix a dam that had been there for decades, if not a century

failboat
failboat Dork
3/23/12 10:19 a.m.
Toyman01 wrote: There in lies the problem. Building permits, from local government, were in hand with approved plans. Sewer and water taps were already paid for and installed. Construction had started according to the approved plans. Corps of Engineers had no listing of it being a wetlands. The EPA just arbitrarily decided it was and slapped them with a compliance order. Then EPA refused to have the case heard in court until after they had complied. How is that justice. Apparently the Supreme Court decided it wasn't.

There you go, I dont think either of the article really drives home the point that the owners jumped through all the hoops correctly, and THEN the EPA stepped in and changed the rules.

berkeley em.

alfadriver
alfadriver UberDork
3/23/12 10:27 a.m.
failboat wrote:
Toyman01 wrote: There in lies the problem. Building permits, from local government, were in hand with approved plans. Sewer and water taps were already paid for and installed. Construction had started according to the approved plans. Corps of Engineers had no listing of it being a wetlands. The EPA just arbitrarily decided it was and slapped them with a compliance order. Then EPA refused to have the case heard in court until after they had complied. How is that justice. Apparently the Supreme Court decided it wasn't.
There you go, I dont think either of the article really drives home the point that the owners jumped through all the hoops correctly, and THEN the EPA stepped in and changed the rules. berkeley em.

Did they? Or did someone "find" something to tip off the EPA to find something?

The EPA is too short staffed to find some nit picky thing on a small lot anywhere. But they are required to react to public notes to them. Somebody tipped them off, and they acted on that.

bluej
bluej Dork
3/23/12 10:32 a.m.

I used to work at a marine and environmental consulting firm. Its not that cut and dry. Usually you have to hire a firm like I worked at to go out and map all the environmental impacts out. At least in FL. Then depending on type of land and species, there are a range of options from none in tge case of mangroves to putchasing designated conservation mitigation land at a ratio elswhere. Feels like info about the story is missing.

Drewsifer
Drewsifer Dork
3/23/12 11:18 a.m.

I just want to make sure I understand this. Some people think that giving people a legal means to contest EPA cease and desist notices is a bad thing?

Schmidlap
Schmidlap HalfDork
3/23/12 11:45 a.m.

Here's a Youtube interview with the couple. It's just the couple's side, so take it with a grain of salt, but the couple explains why they are challenging the EPA.

Basically, the EPA showed up one day and told the contractor working on the property to stop working because the property was a wetland. The couple contacted the EPA and asked how the EPA designated their property a wetland. The EPA said "your property is listed in the National Wetlands Inventory so we have jurisdiction and we think you're building on a wetland." The Sacketts pulled up the National Wetlands Inventory and found that there was no wetland listed on their property. They hired an environmental consulting firm to verify there was no wetlands on their property. They went to the the EPA, the EPA refused to yield, and would not admit their mistake, instead threatening them with tens of thousands of dollars a day in fines. That is why this has gone to court.

Bob

monark192
monark192 HalfDork
3/23/12 11:46 a.m.
Drewsifer wrote: I just want to make sure I understand this. Some people think that giving people a legal means to contest EPA cease and desist notices is a bad thing?

Exactly - from what I understood, the cease and desist notice was uncontestable, it was only the fines for non compliance that you could take to court. Basically, the EPA could pronounce you guilty and start fining you before you had any legal options to defend yourself. I don't think the case was about doing what ever you want on your property.

Toyman01
Toyman01 GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/23/12 12:44 p.m.
monark192 wrote:
Drewsifer wrote: I just want to make sure I understand this. Some people think that giving people a legal means to contest EPA cease and desist notices is a bad thing?
Exactly - from what I understood, the cease and desist notice was uncontestable, it was only the fines for non compliance that you could take to court. Basically, the EPA could pronounce you guilty and start fining you before you had any legal options to defend yourself. I don't think the case was about doing what ever you want on your property.

Nail on head.

It doesn't limit the EPA's ability to do their job, it makes them justify their decisions in a court of law. Before, everyone had to do what they were told when they were told before the courts would ever hear the case.

spitfirebill
spitfirebill SuperDork
3/23/12 3:42 p.m.

I can tell you, the EPA does not drive around looking for projects to deep six like private homes. The US Army Corps of Engineers (COE) and in some occasions the state environmental agency oversees wetlands impacts. There is a hidden agenda here somewhere if the EPA stepped in.

To call something a wetland requires an assessment by a qualified wetland specialist. The consultant (such as us) sends the report to the COE who then does a desk top study or may field verify. Then they determine whether there are wetlands. The NWI maps are maps where wetlands have been documented.

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon MegaDork
3/23/12 4:29 p.m.

The problem is, as was noted earlier, that if someone has an axe to grind they can throw the EPA or etc into it. Now the landowner has to protect themselves legally and even if they win they are not reimbursed for their costs.

If the EPA admits they made a mistake and the landowners decide to take it to court it is theoretically possible to win a settlement. In practice, all it means is appeal after appeal after appeal ad nauseam until the landowners run out of money or tire of the whole thing.

That's been a major problem with the Sierra Club and groups like that, they keep attorneys on staff to do nothing but harass those who don't do what they say. Some time back they even admitted they opposed 'loser pays' because it would have a 'chilling effect' on lawsuits brought to stop whatever they were against.

From http://alabama.sierraclub.org/chapternews/april10/index.html

Thus far, it has been a mixed bag for the environment. The long-fought-against Hog Farm bill is poised to pass this session. After nearly 10 years of the Sierra Club, Sand Mountain Concerned Citizens, and others fighting this legislation, a more watered-down version is likely to pass. The “loser-pays” provision related to nuisance lawsuits against farming operations has been removed. So has any protection for new or expanding hog operations. However, it would be difficult to bring nuisance lawsuits agains existing hog operations - the ones that bring the stench, large black flies, and water quality degradation to rural Alabamians.

Putting aside the hog farm aspect for a moment, that means they want to be able to bring a lawsuit, tie up the defendants in court, run up massive legal bills and if they lose stick the defendant with the tab regardless, meaning the playing field is not level. That's how they shut down OHV trails etc.

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