aircooled wrote:
ronholm wrote:
...It seems though we agree the gay life is a harder life than the straight one? Where is our disagreement? On how to make this easier for as many a possible?
Well certainly. But there is a strange dichotomy in your argument. On one hand you argue that it is wrong that we should encourage people accept gay people because it is a hard or damaging life. And yet you admit one of the primary reasons why gay people have a hard life is because they are not accepted. Do you see what I am saying?
Probably best to avoid the mechanics discussion for now.
Do do see what you are saying...
But I don't argue that we should encourage people to not accept gay people.. I have been accused of such... but only as I pointed out why people are beginning to accept on a larger scale.
And again.. One of the more important things I think I said was that many of the people who chastise the "religious", "self righteous" and whatever... These are the very same people who the most unlikely to be accepting to the same very real gay human in need.. Those they chastise are more likely to be accepting in real world functional terms. What I feel is often expressed is what I call Television perception theology. (you can decide for yourself if you fit the description I ain't pointing fingers)
So know that I speak generally which is certainly to cause misunderstanding as thus far the picture painted by me in the minds of those reading the thread is different from the mainstream image of gay... Which of course is unacceptable.
I would also argue the more mainstream you make "gay" the less appealing it will be to many.
And it isn't the mechanics that I would wish to discuss... I think we all can figure that out without each others help... But instead the psychology. The role of the male and female in sex, the healthy dominance and submission... or the give and the take, and how this translates or doesn't into homosexual sex. It is argued that gay guys are better at sex because generally men care more about sex.. Or even I have heard from gay friends that gay sex is even more masculine as the male seeks to overcome and pleasure another male instead of the female... I don't really think this isn't always healthy in the absence of the more sexually enlightened (IMO) feminine.. and doesn't stay in the bedroom. And sex isn't anything anyone does (regardless of orientation) without effecting themselves on a deeper level than is currently cool to admit.. It does mean something..
Lesley wrote:
Haven't you heard? You turn gay from watching "Will and Grace".
That's absurd. Everyone knows that it and "Queer Eye..." will only turn strait men metrosexual, but that is all that is needed for the Crab People to take over. 
On a serious note re: "Will and Grace", a close gay friend of mine once credited that show with saving his life. I didn't get it because, dear sweet baby Jeebus is that show moronic. But what he saw watching it was that the main stream was embracing a gay character. A gay lead character. He had been depressed and considering suicide, but he saw someone he could identify with being portrayed positively in a national venue. He was different, but no longer just some strange, reviled thing.
Lesley
PowerDork
4/3/13 2:29 p.m.
I liked that show. "Will" (who is a straight guy in real life) is a Canadian, several of my actor friends worked with him before he hit the big time.
Agreed, on the value of mainstream acceptance. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that suffragettes were considered outrageous. Sometimes you gotta make a lot of noise, and some people are going to be uncomfortable about it, in order to make change.
Lesley wrote:
I liked that show. "Will" (who is a straight guy in real life) is a Canadian, several of my actor friends worked with him before he hit the big time.
Agreed, on the value of mainstream acceptance. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that suffragettes were considered outrageous. Sometimes you gotta make a lot of noise, and some people are going to be uncomfortable about it, in order to make change.
As far as how much we have progressed socially in this country and how that is reflected by the media. Several weeks back, I was thinking about the "black" sitcoms of my generation growing up. Things like "The Fresh Prince" and "The Cosby Show". (I think it was inspired by the story here about the kid who got in trouble at school for a voicemail message that referenced "shooting some b-ball" from The Fresh Prince theme.) Those shows, the race of the cast was fairly integral to the show, but it wasn't "the point". Also, you had wealthy and influential black people (a judge and a doctor), and it wasn't a big deal that they were black and affluent.
Compare that to shows from the 70's like The Jeffersons. The point of the show was that they were black people, and they'd come into money.
I'm hoping our culture sees similar things to that in relation to people of different sexual orientations. That a character being gay might be integral to that character, but might be no more weird and socially shocking than that the characters in "The Big Bang Theory" are nerds.
I look forward to more things like Anderson Cooper coming out and there not being any fuss about it.
Beer Baron wrote:
I look forward to more things like Anderson Cooper coming out and there not being any fuss about it.
What Anderson Cooper came out! I will have to continue not listening/watching him
nocones wrote:
Beer Baron wrote:
I look forward to more things like Anderson Cooper coming out and there not being any fuss about it.
What Anderson Cooper came out! I will have to continue not listening/watching him
And Neil Patrick Harris remains awesome regardless of his sexual orientation.
I'm not sure what to think of the irony of NPH vs Barney. On the one hand I enjoy the character that is Barney and find the reality of NPH playing him simply funny. On the other hand I think it makes Barney and How I met your Mother even more hilarious and makes Barney as a character even that much more of a parody of "that guy always trying to get with chicks that your friends with" becasue of NPH..
Lesley
PowerDork
4/3/13 3:14 p.m.
Anderson Cooper - "The Silver Fox".
In reply to nocones:
And how about the characters of Tobias and Lindsay on "Arrested Development"? Where you have David Cross as the ambiguously gay one, and Portia De Rossi as the hyper-hetero one. I definitely find that accentuates the humor in the show.
I think NPH is extra cool as a public gay figure since he is openly gay but far from the stereotypical gay guy. He likes cars and motorcycles and sports, and is as much "guy" as "gay". He is who he is.
nocones wrote:
I'm not sure what to think of the irony of NPH vs Barney. On the one hand I enjoy the character that is Barney and find the reality of NPH playing him simply funny. On the other hand I think it makes Barney and How I met your Mother even more hilarious and makes Barney as a character even that much more of a parody of "that guy always trying to get with chicks that your friends with" becasue of NPH..
When NPH came out it made me love Barney even more.
What I want to know since the show was in development prior to him coming out is if the producers knew when they cast him as Barney that he was gay and therefore amped up the "sexuality" of Barney to beyond hilarious levels knowing full well that NPH would come out eventually rendering their work brilliant and perfect.
Perhaps this is the promotion of gays in media that has been talked about here?
Lesley wrote:
....it wasn't that long ago that suffragettes were considered outrageous....
Hold on a second here! Are you saying women can vote!?!? Oh crap, this country is doomed!
Yes, I take the "Society will be destroyed by this" arguments less the seriously.
ronholm wrote:
...I would also argue the more mainstream you make "gay" the less appealing it will be to many....
Ahhh... the hipster gay.
I don't disagree that this is likely true, but I am pretty sure we are talking about a VERY small majority and honestly is of no concern to anyone in this discussion. It's not like someone is going to "go gay" and get married just to be "edgy". Although, I think there are some that are worried about this strangely enough.
nocones wrote:
What I want to know since the show was in development prior to him coming out is if the producers knew when they cast him as Barney that he was gay and therefore amped up the "sexuality" of Barney to beyond hilarious levels knowing full well that NPH would come out eventually rendering their work brilliant and perfect.
I'm guessing that his sexuality was known within the Hollywood circle before he came out, but that they came up with the character of Barney before giving the role to NPH. I think him being gay just makes it easier for him to pull of that level of absurd sexuality. Maybe after casting NPH as Barney, they decided to ramp up what they had originally imagined just because he did such a good job with the role.
Eh, who knows? Who cares? He does a great job with the character, and that's what matters.
Lesley wrote:
z31maniac wrote:
I tried telling you guys it wouldn't get any better after Lesley's "confusing" post.
Let this one die and let the troll think he is the superior intellect in the room.
Did I make a confusing post? I'm sorry. 
Or did you mean the gross one I posted. For that I'm even sorrier... 
I meant you're funny quip about confusing boys/girls, etc.
THis one
Lesley wrote:
OK. So, in summary, we're saying that most men don't like to eat large hairy nuts, but many women like all kinds of pie?
I think we've compounded the issue.
Beer Baron wrote:
I'm hoping our culture sees similar things to that in relation to people of different sexual orientations. That a character being gay might be integral to that character, but might be no more weird and socially shocking than that the characters in "The Big Bang Theory" are nerds.
We aren't there already?
That's what I said to somebody about pride week. I was like, "there's no hetero week is there?? What is this, 1990?"
I dunno, the fact is, in Canada (where surveys have been done), LGBT make up at most 2% of the population. So, even if LGBT makes that final transition to "so what?" status, it will always be "different", as it is the definition of different (not the same as others).
That would be like somebody on a TV show saying they were Metis. If they didn't look native and I had no idea, I'd be surprised (even if it was a character thing). But they are "out there" and "well known" to all Canadians as an aboriginal people. The statistics just kind of lead to that direction of the unexpected.
nocones wrote:
Perhaps this is the promotion of gays in media that has been talked about here?
What! I have no idea what you are talking about?
Chicken or the egg?
And if people are really just learning this stuff from TV... are you ok with that?
Hold on a second here! Are you saying women can vote!?!? Oh crap, this country is doomed!
Yes, I take the "Society will be destroyed by this" arguments less the seriously.
{troll on}
Susan B was a republican through and through... .. 
{troll Off}
HiTempguy wrote:
We aren't there already?
That's what I said to somebody about pride week. I was like, "there's no hetero week is there?? What is this, 1990?"
Maybe. I think we're close to being there, but not quite yet.
Lesley wrote:
This is a guy who would totally fit in on this board. Often he knows more of the minutia of the cars I've just picked up, because he's already read all about them. Would it be cool if he too posted that he had a "hot" significant other that totally supported his car habits? I'd hope so.
The GRM forum was cool with a transsexual poster that used to post quite often. We're progressive, yo!
JoeyM
UltimaDork
4/4/13 6:05 a.m.
Osterkraut wrote:
Lesley wrote:
This is a guy who would totally fit in on this board. Often he knows more of the minutia of the cars I've just picked up, because he's already read all about them. Would it be cool if he too posted that he had a "hot" significant other that totally supported his car habits? I'd hope so.
The GRM forum was cool with a transsexual poster that used to post quite often. We're progressive, yo!
Yup. I wish she'd chime in more often
JoeyM wrote:
Osterkraut wrote:
Lesley wrote:
This is a guy who would totally fit in on this board. Often he knows more of the minutia of the cars I've just picked up, because he's already read all about them. Would it be cool if he too posted that he had a "hot" significant other that totally supported his car habits? I'd hope so.
The GRM forum was cool with a transsexual poster that used to post quite often. We're progressive, yo!
Yup. I wish she'd chime in more often
KatyB. Yeah, where is she?
JoeyM
UltimaDork
4/4/13 4:39 p.m.
I don't know. I just emailed to see how she is. Maybe she'll drop in here and say hello
