Scientology ?

DrBoost wrote: Post removed because the kind of people that I'm talking about wouldn't listen anyway. I'll challenge you guys that like to tell the stories about how you scared or shocked Mormons or JWs away to talk to them once. Pick a topic and ask them about it. Then your opinion will either be changed, or upheld. At least you won't be ignorant.

It's more like our lack of ignorance that makes it so we don't want to hear their "stories".

Again, most of us have been around long enough to hear all about their beliefs, stories, and faiths that they have nothing "new" to tell us. Religions have been around for a little while, pretty sure we are all aware of them.

Yes, from what I've read on this thread folks are very knowledgable about those religions (the servitude of the ones that knock on the door and the 144,000 were both mentioned in this thread)
Either way, I just find it ironic that people on this board are so supportive of some of the morally questionable practices and lifestyles I've read about (I'm talking about from the perspective of the general public, not any religion) but are quick to pile on folks that are (crazy or not) trying to make the world a better place.
I'm going to back out now. I told myself a long time ago to avoid politics and religion on this, or any other board. I have learned one thing though. If I ever were to go to a Scientology meeting, I'm not putting my real name on anything.

ronholm wrote: Dr boost... Given the number of heathens around here this may have been the wrong place to share the story, potentiality fueling the fire of some anti Christian bigots (yes you heard me correctly)

I'm not anti-Christian. I anti-religion of any kind.

And my problem with evangelists and the door-to-door converter types is that their idea of "making the world a better place" really means "making the world more like them."

But I, too, am going to leave it at that.

DrBoost wrote: Yes, from what I've read on this thread folks are very knowledgable about those religions (the servitude of the ones that knock on the door and the 144,000 were both mentioned in this thread) Either way, I just find it ironic that people on this board are so supportive of some of the morally questionable practices and lifestyles I've read about (I'm talking about from the perspective of the general public, not any religion) but are quick to pile on folks that are (crazy or not) trying to make the world a better place. I'm going to back out now. I told myself a long time ago to avoid politics and religion on this, or any other board. I have learned one thing though. If I ever were to go to a Scientology meeting, I'm not putting my real name on anything.

I'm gonna play Devils advocate and agree with you for a second. I'll first state that I find organized religion to be...interesting. I'd call myself Agnostic at best. I generally find the Bible in and of itself to be a book written and translated so many times that if it WERE true, it would be inaccurate at best, however it serves its purpose, and to me that's to be a moral compass to those who otherwise might be lost without one. Sometimes people need instructions. THAT BEING SAID-

I find the JW's in particular to be the most accurate in their chosen interpretation and execution of the Bible. Those dudes can quote the HELL out of it, give you passages, and reasons for every single action they take. The no blood, the subservience of women, the paradise on earth vs. the ascension, all of it. Now do I agree with a lot of it? No. Does it affect me if a JW doesn't want to take blood in the event of a catastrophic injury? Not really- other than the blood i've donated in the past will not unfortunately, be saving them. I don't like blood sausage, so we're kosher (see what I did there?) there. I even get why there's no windows in their meeting halls (I had family that was JW at one point- I've been to services) no religious icons, all of it. It's all directly related to their teachings/learnings within their Bible and other religious text (these dudes have HELLA books. I had a bunch of em at one point). One of their teaching is to go door to door and share their word. They're ostensibly trying to convert you, but more than that- they're trying to share what they believe. It's all anyone ever is really trying to do. I believe Captain Morgan Sherry Oak to be delicious. SO- I share it. I believe my ms3 is the perfect car for me, and damn near anyone else on earth. So I share that. I believe my MINI to be awesome, but a giant PITA, so I share that. It's all a set of different opinions and beliefs and rules and morals that gets people by. Isn't that what we're all doing on a given day? If you don't like something, it might be more prudent to say "Thank you but xxx". You'll run into one of two situations. Situation A- they'll discuss it with you, and you both might learn something. Or B- they'll thank you for your time, go on their way, and you can go back to their Cap'n Crunch. No harm, no foul. Sorta like what happened with the Mormon girl I dated. She was Mormon, understood that I had no interest in it, and was cool with it. When it was no longer cool with it, she moved on to whatever she moved on to, no harm no foul. Met my wife, we're both violently independent, and neither giant fans of organized religion.... so it probably works better than the Mormon would have. Strangely, the wife is more like a Mormon, that the Mormon was. But that's neither here nor there. We're all just bags o' meat and sauce trying to get by on a day to day basis. Maybe we need to be nicer to each other. Iono.

Duke wrote: In reply to JoeyM: I prefer how Malcolm Forbes gets around. I believe the previous Capitalist Tool was a 747.

Not that we are keeping up with obituaries or anything, but he's been dead for 23 years. He has been getting around a different way for some time now. BTW, Dick Trickle is dead too

In reply to DrBoost:

Doc, they don't stop at my house anymore because I simply told them that I wasn't interested and explained why.

FWIW, I worked with a guy for 7 years who had his B/A in theology and was a youth pastor in a mennonite church.

I really enjoyed the discussions I had with him and we're still good friends. He keeps telling me that I ask too many hard questions though.

I'm an atheist if anyone wants to know, for whatever that's worth but please, don't lump me in with the loud, in-you-face, militant, internet ones.

If what you believe works for you and makes your life better, then so be it.

Shawn

Trans_Maro wrote: In reply to DrBoost: Doc, they don't stop at my house anymore because I simply told them that I wasn't interested and explained why. FWIW, I worked with a guy for 7 years who had his B/A in theology and was a youth pastor in a mennonite church. I really enjoyed the discussions I had with him and we're still good friends. He keeps telling me that I ask too many hard questions though. I'm an atheist if anyone wants to know, for whatever that's worth but please, don't lump me in with the loud, in-you-face, militant, internet ones. If what you believe works for you and makes your life better, then so be it. Shawn

You said it way less worse than I did.

I had an interesting conversation with my boss the other day that is kinda relevant to the direction this thread turned.

He is a self described atheist and he had a baptist preacher come knock on his door. He had just moved into his house and the preacher asked him if he had found a church yet. He told him no and let the preacher give his speech about Jesus, God and his church and then he asked if he thought he would come by and check it out on Sunday. He said no I'm not interested and when the preacher asked him why he told him he was an atheist. He said that he could actually see the preachers face turn red when he said it. The boss's girlfriend and her 5yo daughter where over at the time and the preacher assumed that they where married. He said the preacher looked at the little girl and asked him how he felt about condemning his daughter to hell and told him that he was going to burn in hell for eternity. Now at this point he had been standing at the door for about fifteen minutes and my boss felt he had been more than patient with the preacher. He bluntly told him the conversation was over and it was time for him to leave. He said the preacher got infuriated and started cussing him and saying God would judge him and that little girl and her whore mother too. He shut the door and told the preacher he was calling the police if he didn't leave.

Somehow, I've never had a person from any religion come to my door. I'm not sure how I would interact with them. I have my beliefs but would not consider myself a very religious person. I certainly do not have enough knowledge about any religion to have an intelligent conversation with anyone about it. The question of how and why we are here is not at all relevant to me. All I know is I'm here now and all I want is to do the best I can while I'm here. I'm not sure that if someone proved we came from God or evolved or transferred from another planet on an ancient space ship would change in any way how I live my life or what I have to do tomorrow.

Just remember that there are crazies in EVERY group of people. The don't necessarily represent that group's beliefs, they're just the ones that stand out.

The majority of baptists aren't the Westboro nutjobs.

The majority of muslims don't want to blow everyone else up. (The ones I worked for were pretty fine capitalists and did a lot for charities)

Most atheists aren't the in-your-face kooks I see on the internet.

The gay people I know aren't the "pride parade" folks.

Sounds like your boss found one of the kooks and unfortunately, he's in a position of influence.

I would have pointed out that Jesus forgave the whores too.

From what I've come to understand, all the faiths out there, even the ones that believe there is no supreme being have the same basic principles: Just be a decent person and treat others the way you want to be treated.

Everyone manages to forget those principles now and then.

Except the movementarians, screw those people..

EVERYONE HERE SHOULD BE A MEMBER OF..

Raëlism!!!!

This dude found a way to not only start a religion, but also make consumable parts of the car, a sacrament.... As a result. Motor racing was a tax exempt religious practice... And the Sacraments; car, tires, fuel, repairs, were a religious tax write off. Well at least they were until the CDN Government caught on to him!! Ether way good for him!!! Also about 10 years ago his religious scientists, claimed to have cloned a Human!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C3%ABlism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C3%ABl#Racecar_driver

The last time a pair of JH's came by, I was working in the garage. Radio was playing, so I didn't have warning of their arrival. Not tweens this time, but a couple that oddly didn't seem to be husband/wife. The gal was pretty, so I didn't dismiss them right off like I usually would. They were polite, so I decided to engage them a bit and see what, exactly, was their thing.

Of course, they wanted to sell me their religion. They asked what religion I was, or if I believed in JC, or something. When I told them I was agnostic, the sales pitch ended. I was surprised; I thought it would put the saving of my soul into high gear, but it didn't. Anyway, we had a nice chat, the guy asked about my old truck, and I was able to gaze lustily upon the woman for a few minutes more. Not a bad experience, but haven't seen any since.

Being the atheist heathen that I am (hey, I've evolved since then) I recently listened to a podcast about the JH church because I frankly didn't know squat about it and I was curious. There's a lot about it that is either silly (like the 144,000) or pretty sad (the way they treat women). Next time they come by with a pretty lady I will ask her how she likes being treated as a second class citizen by her church.

Linky to the podcast if you want to learn about it from people who were actually once members: Jehovah's Witnesses

Points for persistence. They left two messages yesterday.

Scientology has an, er, unusual basis according to Hubbard's writings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu

The story of Xenu is covered in OT III, part of Scientology's secret "Advanced Technology" doctrines taught only to advanced members who have undergone many hours of auditing and reached the state of Clear followed by Operating Thetan levels 1 and 2.[7][12] It is described in more detail in the accompanying confidential "Assists" lecture of October 3, 1968, and is dramatized in Revolt in the Stars (a screenplay written by L. Ron Hubbard in 1977).[7][22]

Hubbard wrote that Xenu was the ruler of a Galactic Confederacy 75 million years ago, which consisted of 26 stars and 76 planets including Earth, which was then known as "Teegeeack".[5][8][23] The planets were overpopulated, containing an average population of 178 billion.[1][4][6] The Galactic Confederacy's civilization was comparable to our own, with aliens "walking around in clothes which looked very remarkably like the clothes they wear this very minute" and using cars, trains and boats looking exactly the same as those "circa 1950, 1960" on Earth.[24]

Xenu was about to be deposed from power, so he devised a plot to eliminate the excess population from his dominions. With the assistance of psychiatrists, he gathered billions[4][5] of his citizens under the pretense of income tax inspections, then paralyzed them and froze them in a mixture of alcohol and glycol to capture their souls. The kidnapped populace was loaded into spacecraft for transport to the site of extermination, the planet of Teegeeack (Earth).[5] The appearance of these spacecraft would later be subconsciously expressed in the design of the Douglas DC-8, the only difference being that "the DC8 had fans, propellers on it and the space plane didn't".[21] When they had reached Teegeeack, the paralyzed citizens were unloaded around the bases of volcanoes across the planet.[5][8] Hydrogen bombs were then lowered into the volcanoes and detonated simultaneously,[8] killing all but a few aliens. Hubbard described the scene in his film script, Revolt in the Stars:

Simultaneously, the planted charges erupted. Atomic blasts ballooned from the craters of Loa, Vesuvius, Shasta, Washington, Fujiyama, Etna, and many, many others. Arching higher and higher, up and outwards, towering clouds mushroomed, shot through with flashes of flame, waste and fission. Great winds raced tumultuously across the face of Earth, spreading tales of destruction ...

—L. Ron Hubbard, Revolt in the Stars[7]

As an atheist I don't believe in any god or gods (don't take this as an attack, theists!) but I do believe there's a very good chance that there are other civilizations out there. But Hubbard's description of them is way off the reservation.

Datsun1500 wrote:

DrBoost wrote: Yes, from what I've read on this thread folks are very knowledgable about those religions (the servitude of the ones that knock on the door and the 144,000 were both mentioned in this thread)

You do realize that the JW do believe only 144,000 will actually go to heaven right? That is a real belief. What most people don't realize is they believe the rest will be living in a "heaven on earth"

Only chiming in to answer a direct question.
Yes i do. From your mention of only that many "saved" i didnt think you were aware of he rest of the story.

On Friday I hired a Palestinian Muslim to work in my CHRISTMAS Lighting Business...

I made it very clear I was a CHRISTMAS Lighting Bizz... and often when showing up to work at customers homes we sing traditional Christmas hymns when ringing the doorbell...

Guy had no problem with it... Said Muslims had Christmas too... They just call it by a different name...

Totally hired the guy!

ABout two years ago I had a JW who really wanted to work with us..... The guy was spotted by another member of his klan driving around in my Rudolph van wearing a Santa hat.... and they 'shunned' him over it... Or whatever it is they do...

Funny stuff...

You know what I do to get those ignorant evangelists to go away? I tell them politely that I've heard their message before and that I'm really not interested. Works nearly every time.

Although I once had one of a pair of Mormon missionaries try to grill me on the situation while I was passing him walking home down my street. I ended up lecturing him on how impolite he was being. His other buddy ended up basically pulling the guy to continue their rounds because he could tell the guy was being a dick.

My favorite moment of "WTF?" discussing their religion with a Mormon was explaining how I had several friends in high school who were kind of "oxy-Mormon". Stayed quiet with it for the sake of their family but then turned 18, came fully out of the closet, and left the church behind. Friend tried to tell me how the Mormon church was really very accepting of homosexuals. Umm... no. They ain't. If you think they are, you don't understand your church.

I also lost any faith in the Mormon church to teach Christian charity when I was in high school and got a flat tire on my way to school... right in front of the Mormon church on my 9 mile ride... as one of their seminary classes was ending... and dozens of SUVs and minivans had to stop at the entrance 5 feet away from me to turn onto the road... and not a single person stopped to offer any kind of help or even moral concern. Sorry, but your church is failing to teach the right things if you can not offer aid to someone in need at the doorstep of your church.

I'm generally pretty polite and say "I'm not intersted, thanks. Please don't step foot on my property again." There was one time, however, when they came back the next weekend. I was running late for something, and these E36 M3 heads parked a berkeleying truck in front of my garage. I opened the door and said "I told you last time, I'm not interested. You're trespassing on private property." Dude starts in with "I'm sorry sir, if we could just have a moment of..."

"If that berkeleying truck isn't gone by the time I open the garage door, I'm pushing it up the goddamned driveway."

They don't ring the doorbell anymore, but they do stuff pamphlets and crap in my door occasionally. I don't like that. Maybe they heart the jeebus. Maybe they're creative criminals who've found an efficient way to case a neighborhood.

Wally wrote: Answering the door naked seems to help keep anyone from coming back

That doesn't work on the SubGenius.

OTOH, they also have too much slack to go door-to-door, so there's that.

iadr wrote:

mndsm wrote: One of their teaching is to go door to door and share their word. They're ostensibly trying to convert you, but more than that- they're trying to share what they believe. It's all anyone ever is really trying to do.

Not true at all. What they are doing is straight out of Cult 101: they are indoctrinating young members to believe the world is a hateful place full of disrespect. They are doing it deliberately, with vicious, cynical malice. They are doing it by placing their own most vulnerable members in the psychological "firing line" by placing them in the most unwelcome situations. Conversion rate from door to door is somewhere along the lines of 0.02%, and they are *just fine* with that, b/c that's far from the purpose. /thread.

Not trying to flounder, not trying to troll, genuinely curious- have you READ any of the JW or Mormon religious literature? Spoken to multiple members of both the "elders" and the recently baptised? Trying to understand your rationale.

Curmudgeon wrote: Scientology has an, er, unusual basis according to Hubbard's writings. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu The story of Xenu is covered in OT III, part of Scientology's secret "Advanced Technology" doctrines taught only to advanced members who have undergone many hours of auditing and reached the state of Clear followed by Operating Thetan levels 1 and 2.[7][12] It is described in more detail in the accompanying confidential "Assists" lecture of October 3, 1968, and is dramatized in Revolt in the Stars (a screenplay written by L. Ron Hubbard in 1977).[7][22] Hubbard wrote that Xenu was the ruler of a Galactic Confederacy 75 million years ago, which consisted of 26 stars and 76 planets including Earth, which was then known as "Teegeeack".[5][8][23] The planets were overpopulated, containing an average population of 178 billion.[1][4][6] The Galactic Confederacy's civilization was comparable to our own, with aliens "walking around in clothes which looked very remarkably like the clothes they wear this very minute" and using cars, trains and boats looking exactly the same as those "circa 1950, 1960" on Earth.[24] Xenu was about to be deposed from power, so he devised a plot to eliminate the excess population from his dominions. With the assistance of psychiatrists, he gathered billions[4][5] of his citizens under the pretense of income tax inspections, then paralyzed them and froze them in a mixture of alcohol and glycol to capture their souls. The kidnapped populace was loaded into spacecraft for transport to the site of extermination, the planet of Teegeeack (Earth).[5] The appearance of these spacecraft would later be subconsciously expressed in the design of the Douglas DC-8, the only difference being that "the DC8 had fans, propellers on it and the space plane didn't".[21] When they had reached Teegeeack, the paralyzed citizens were unloaded around the bases of volcanoes across the planet.[5][8] Hydrogen bombs were then lowered into the volcanoes and detonated simultaneously,[8] killing all but a few aliens. Hubbard described the scene in his film script, Revolt in the Stars: Simultaneously, the planted charges erupted. Atomic blasts ballooned from the craters of Loa, Vesuvius, Shasta, Washington, Fujiyama, Etna, and many, many others. Arching higher and higher, up and outwards, towering clouds mushroomed, shot through with flashes of flame, waste and fission. Great winds raced tumultuously across the face of Earth, spreading tales of destruction ... —L. Ron Hubbard, Revolt in the Stars[7] As an atheist I don't believe in any god or gods (don't take this as an attack, theists!) but I do believe there's a very good chance that there are other civilizations out there. But Hubbard's description of them is way off the reservation.

how awesome is it that we just happen to live on the most important planet in the whole confederacy? i mean, the odds of that happening are 1 in 76, and dammit, here we are... also, how awesome is it that we just happen to be alive during the age when everything is supposed to start to happen? the odds of that happening are pretty dang slim...

All I ever needed to know about Scientology I learned from South Park. They did a hilarious episode on it where they roast Tom Cruise. I looked for it on YouTube but there doesn't seem to be a complete episode that isn't a camera parked in front of a TV screen. If you get a chance to watch it on a re-run, it's right up there with the Harley-Davidson episode for lampooning.

I usually tell whoever comes to the door that I am an atheist. At that moment they usually turn and run while muttering some sort of apology.

Better than the time one came by when I was cleaning the old 12ga. I was came around from the back yard holding a half disassembled side by side and thy ran. I just didn't have a table to put it down on.

ddavidv wrote: All I ever needed to know about Scientology I learned from South Park. They did a hilarious episode on it where they roast Tom Cruise. I looked for it on YouTube but there doesn't seem to be a complete episode that isn't a camera parked in front of a TV screen. If you get a chance to watch it on a re-run, it's right up there with the Harley-Davidson episode for lampooning.

It's called 'Trapped in the Closet' and yes it's an excellent episode. Not only did Tom Cruise threaten to sue but it's why Isaac Hayes left the show. Hayes was a Scientologist, saw no reason not to make fun of Christianity, Judaism etc but balked when it came to Scientology. He told Parker and Stone that if they did the episode he would quit and they said 'well, guess you have to do what you have to do'.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s09e12-trapped-in-the-closet

ddavidv wrote: All I ever needed to know about Scientology I learned from South Park. They did a hilarious episode on it where they roast Tom Cruise. I looked for it on YouTube but there doesn't seem to be a complete episode that isn't a camera parked in front of a TV screen. If you get a chance to watch it on a re-run, it's right up there with the Harley-Davidson episode for lampooning.

The best part: the wording at the bottom of the scene that is needed to explain to people that they didn't make the beliefs up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7EEOMbBIO8

the Mormon episode was also pretty good...

they way they threw the "dum dum dum dum dum" line into the song every time they explained one of the more outrageous beliefs was priceless..

they've also taken on Christianity- especially Catholicism- Judaism, some aspects of Buddhism, and even a little bit of Satanism..

the only religion that South Park really hasn't torn apart is Islam- but they did turn Mohammad into Santa Claus...