It's worth a shot: Anyone have a service manual / technical manual for a John Deere 450C Dozer?
It's worth a shot: Anyone have a service manual / technical manual for a John Deere 450C Dozer?
If you can just get by on parts drawings, you should be able to find them on jdparts.com.
I've also ordered manuals from them in the past.
Going on 40 years ago now, I did key lining in my mothers graphics business on JD parts catalog drawings. Times have changed.
I just stopped in to say I've always wanted a dozer.
I would think you could find one on fleabay. Alos, old tractor and dozer people usually have great support systems on the interwebs. I see karacticus also said to check with JD. I second that.
In reply to spitfirebill:
It is correct that there are good vintage tractor and equipment web forums out there.
My personal experience with JD dealers is that they are unhelpful shiny happy people when it comes to service information. They either want you to pay thier tech to diagnose the problem, or charge you full MSRP for a manual. I'm in a closely related business and occasionally work on JD products. I've had to go down to the dealer in person and twist some arms just to get a wiring diagram, this should have been a simple, common professional courtesy for me, and these guys know that they will get parts sale anyway.
$30? https://www.bobcatmanualonline.com/downloads/john-deere-450c-crawler-dozer-repair-technical-manual
HappyAndy wrote: In reply to spitfirebill: It is correct that there are good vintage tractor and equipment web forums out there. My personal experience with JD dealers is that they are unhelpful shiny happy people when it comes to service information. They either want you to pay thier tech to diagnose the problem, or charge you full MSRP for a manual. I'm in a closely related business and occasionally work on JD products. I've had to go down to the dealer in person and twist some arms just to get a wiring diagram, this should have been a simple, common professional courtesy for me, and these guys know that they will get parts sale anyway.
I had totally forgotten about JD being shiny happy people about repair outside their shops. Color me stupid
spitfirebill wrote:HappyAndy wrote: In reply to spitfirebill: It is correct that there are good vintage tractor and equipment web forums out there. My personal experience with JD dealers is that they are unhelpful shiny happy people when it comes to service information. They either want you to pay thier tech to diagnose the problem, or charge you full MSRP for a manual. I'm in a closely related business and occasionally work on JD products. I've had to go down to the dealer in person and twist some arms just to get a wiring diagram, this should have been a simple, common professional courtesy for me, and these guys know that they will get parts sale anyway.I had totally forgotten about JD being shiny happy people about repair outside their shops. Color me stupid
That's because manuals for heavy equipment like that not only take a ton of man hours to produce, they also cost a lot of money to actually print/bind/etc.
In reply to z31maniac:
A manufacturer will spend that money for any machine that they produce because they have to for the sake of thier own ability to service it. That's not a good excuse to extort your customers.
Other equipment manufacturers are not as difficult to get service information out of, some even have full manuals available to view online to the general public. If buyers know your machine is well supported they will buy more of them. The best built machine in the world is useless if it can't be serviced easily.
BTW, JD is one of the manufacturers that is pushing software with EUA licenses that prohibit access to non OEM authorized users, including the owner of the machine. That's just how JD rolls.
It's a shame, IMO JD builds really good stuff, better than cat where they compete head to head. Knowing how they are, I'd have a hard time recommending them to people for that reason.
HappyAndy wrote: In reply to z31maniac: A manufacturer will spend that money for any machine that they produce because they have to for the sake of thier own ability to service it. That's not a good excuse to extort your customers. Other equipment manufacturers are not as difficult to get service information out of, some even have full manuals available to view online to the general public. If buyers know your machine is well supported they will buy more of them. The best built machine in the world is useless if it can't be serviced easily. BTW, JD is one of the manufacturers that is pushing software with EUA licenses that prohibit access to non OEM authorized users, including the owner of the machine. That's just how JD rolls. It's a shame, IMO JD builds really good stuff, better than cat where they compete head to head. Knowing how they are, I'd have a hard time recommending them to people for that reason.
I don't see how paying for something that is expensive to make = extorting your customers. But that's the typical attitude of many on this website that everything should be nearly free and nothing is worth anything, blah blah blah.
Heavy equipment stuff has been going that direction a long time. It prevents people who don't know what they are doing from getting in, mucking with the code, and presenting a possible liability issue. Hell on the crane RCI's I used to write for, we wouldn't even let license crane operators to have access to someone of the more advance calibration. A new machine would have one of our techs go out, set it up, then lock it down.
Tech writer for more than 1 $xxx,xxx,xxx manufacturing company
In reply to z31maniac:
I've purchased several Bentley manuals over the years and don't regret it. If I owned a JD dozer, I'd be willing to buy a manual. I agree that technical information has a real monetary value, but there are limits and exceptions.
As a tech working for a company that buys thousands of dollars worth of JD parts a year, I shouldn't be hasseled over asking for a wiring diagram of a 10 year old machine. Our company will share the same type of information with them without a fight.
Our machines have a lot of stuff that I wouldn't want anyone messing with, like the programming of the transmission control valves and e-hydraulics controllers, but I wouldn't object to an owner with the proper skills to do things like changing a broken can-bus joystick or do a trans valve auto cal. My understanding is that JD locks all that stuff up. The tiny amount of service revenue that would be lost to the few owners who can DIY would be more than covered by the good will and repeat business generated.
Sincerely: a technician that makes his living fixing odd and poorly supported machines that others won't touch/run away screaming from.
HappyAndy wrote: but I wouldn't object to an owner with the proper skills to do things like changing a broken can-bus joystick or do a trans valve auto cal.
And that's kind of the point. How do you judge if a non-OEM Certified mechanic has the proper skills to make the repair?
At companies I've worked for that did this, yeah after years and years of business with someone the service people would know if they could sell them a service kit, or just tell them "Sorry, this only available as a pre-built, subassembly" because the distributor/retailer had a poor reputation for work.
Just how it is.
Interesting story on JD Manuals. I used to write them for C&F (construction and forestry) based out of Dubuque. The old manuals were kick ass. They were done by real techs, using real procedures, and they tore down equipment fully and documented it. New manuals are written by college students for no pay, using only the solid models and what amounts to whatever mechanical knowledge they may possess. They are reviewed by an editor who also is not technical, and then published. The goal is maximum content for minimum pay. All our writing was done as guesswork of how things looked in the solid model and what we could get from pictures of the equipment. Once in a while we took something apart for grins but very rarely.
The 450C is old enough to have a decent book, and it should have fairly accurate torque specs, schematics, and theories of operation since these come from engineering. But the actual procedures? You can wipe your butt with the procedures. Diagnosis? That was a guess too.
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