Sheriff Dupnik is an idiot

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-_n_867020.html?icid=main%7Ccompaq-laptop%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%7C214312

Hopefully, the people of Pima County will make sure he no longer has a job soon.

While I feel for the Guerenas, people have GOT to understand that having an automatic weapon pointing back at you creates a VERY hostile atmosphere for the police. Yes he needs to protect his house and family but there are smarter ways then putting yourself in harms way.

Sad

I can't second guess either parties actions, but a Father, Husband, and fighting hero is now dead. Just awful for everyone involved.

Dupnik? That's a real name?

Maybe they mispelled it. Shouldn't it be Dumbnik?

The whole thing seems shady, but the "reporter" uses to many assumptions for me to be able to take him seriously.

AR-15 isn't automatic.

Not a good scenario all around.

In the sheriff's defense he did have a gun pointed at them.

Of course that presumes he knew they were police and was still pointing a gun at them.

The "official" version of this has already "officially" changed a couple times. I'm not a father, but if I didn't know they were police I would have stood my ground to protect my wife as well.... at least I'd like to think I would.

This is one case where I hope the victims get filty stinkin' rich. Those poor boys will grow up without a dad because he was suspected of peddaling a more or less harmless drug. The fact that he had no priors or anything illegal around raises many, many questions.

In reply to John Brown:

Likewise, it is perfectly reasonable to expect a combat veteran to consider armed intruders in his home to be a very hostile atmosphere.

Brett

You would think the Police would have announced their entrance. If not, I can't see how such things would reasonably be avoided.

I suspect there is a possibility that he was asleep (at 9:30 am) and did not hear the screams of "police, police" (which I am assuming they did?), just the breaking in.

I'm a vet. I've been in combat in Baghdad, fire fights.

There is no way a competent unit requires 60-70 rounds to subdue a single dismount.

I read this last week. Police brutality at it's worst.

http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/16/marine-survives-two-tours-in-i

Yeah... they didn't announce that they were cops, they just snuck up to the house dressed in black. Like ANYONE is gonna take the chance that they're cops and not murderous thugs. if this happens here they won't find me with the safety off. This sort of crap has got to stop.

Excuse a thread jacking but it is related. Hopefully these trigger happy public servants get their just deserts.

http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/25/would-meek-compliance-have-sav

If the Marine truly thought they were intruders, why did he stand in front of the intruders in the open with his safety on? The only reason I can see for someone with combat training to stand in front of the intruders with no natural barriers is if he knew they were police and had come out to talk to them.

The worse part of this ordeal is that he could have survived. But they denied him medical treatment for 74 minutes while he bled out.

In reply to MrJoshua:

Because you don't take your safety off until you're ready to shoot and kill somebody. You keep your finger off the trigger, too. He probably just wanted them to leave without having to shoot his weapon.

I'll post this in a new post, since my other one is a few minutes old, and I don't want to edit it in case somebody is replying right now:

What really galls me about these situations is that our legal system was founded on the premise that people are innocent until proven guilty and that it is better to let a guilty person go free than it is to incarcerate an innocent one.

No knock warrants take that and stand it on it's head, as innocent people get killed simply defending their homes.

Sadly, the Supreme Court recently ruled that the police can enter your house without a warrant provided they have "exigent circumstances." Like smelling pot.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-1272.pdf

Just heard on 5 pm news:

85 year old Korean vet fires warning shots when 2 large men broke through the door of his dark apartment just after 4 a.m. Fortunately nobody was injured. The two large men were EMS responding to a 911 call from another elderly man who told dispatch to break his apartment door down as he was incapacitated and couldn't reach the door.

In this case, mistakes happen. The problem was the incapacitated man lived on the floor above the vet's. Local PD will not press charges against the 85 year old vet. The 911 director is reviewing the incoming call and dispatch tapes to prevent a future event.

John Brown wrote: While I feel for the Guerenas, people have GOT to understand that having an automatic weapon pointing back at you creates a VERY hostile atmosphere for the police. Yes he needs to protect his house and family but there are smarter ways then putting yourself in harms way.

It wasnt automatic, and he was defending himself from unannounced invaders.

With prevailing thought like yours, John, its getting to sound more and more worth it to criminals to dress in black clothing and helmets, and just tear down doors.

These no-knock raids are an unjustice to the American people and the laws of the land. The fact that people defend this, just because the home invaders call themselves "police" is frightening.

John Brown wrote: While I feel for the Guerenas, people have GOT to understand that having an automatic weapon pointing back at you creates a VERY hostile atmosphere for the police. Yes he needs to protect his house and family but there are smarter ways then putting yourself in harms way.

Did you not read the article? The police had a dirty warrant with probably no actual evidence (that they've sealed off) and came into his home with a no-knock entrance. You are asleep with your wife and child after working the swing shift, you survived 2 tours in Iraq, and your wife's cousins were murdered in a break-in last year.

Some dude busts down your door, you get the wife and kids in the closet and go into the hall with the gun, on SAFE, to investigate when you are shot over 60 times without warning or announcement. Then you are denied medical treatment for 74 minutes while you die on your hallway floor.

Yeah, he was really the danger to the freaking SWAT team. Oh, by the way, they had the wrong house. No drugs, no illegal weapons, no nothing. Mr. Guerenas and his wife had totally clean records. And now the DA, Police Chief, and Courts are trying to cover their asses by changing the story (they claimed he shot yet the gun was found on safe with no bullets missing and no GSR, imagine that) and sealing off the warrants and reports.

Get a grip.

I'm curious as to why he just had an assault rifle lying around...

HiTempguy wrote: I'm curious as to why he just had an assault rifle lying around...

I honestly don't know an ex-military guy that doesn't, especially not a Marine that saw combat. That's like wondering why a GRM reader has torque wrench or a welder.