Short Linguistic Question

In the "What car: Twins on the way" thread the term "full-size mini-van" got used several times.

Is this an oxymoron? What do you call a phrase that has two seemly contradictory descriptors embedded in it?

I would say that "full-size mini-van" is a retronym. However that has nothing to do with its self contradictory nature. I think the term came along to exclude the Mazda5 which is en effect a mini mini-van.

According to this link, there are full sized minvans, mid sized minivans and compact minivans.

mini-van is a particular design. Just like, sedan, coupe, convertible, hatch back etc.

All come in various sizes.

With the advent of the front wheel drive van (ala' Caravan), they were referred to as a "mini van". I think that has since continued to evolve to be the catch all phrase for front wheel drive vans where the traditional rear wheel drive van would be considered a "full size van".

If you think mini-van = front wheel drive van, you can start to see where there are a bunch of different sizes. The new Dodge Promaster is front wheel drive and is MUCH bigger than, say, the original Dodge Caravan. If you think of it as a tall front wheel drive box on wheels (height being a differentiator to denote a "van" v. a "wagon"), then things like Kia Rondo's and the aforementioned Mazda 5 could be considered small mini-vans.

Before anyone states it, yes, there are plenty of examples that break that model. Is a Toyota Previa (small rear wheel drive) a mini van or a full size van? Is the Dodge Promaster really a mini-van?

I think in the example, the concept is to look for a bigger mini-van (Dodge Caravan) v. a smaller mini-van (Mazda 5).

Clear as mud? :)

-Rob

I think the two oxymorons cancel each other out, otherwise, we would have been sucked into the resulting vortex by now.

But what if the Previa had big wheels in the back? Would that make it a Large Rear Wheel Drive Mini Van?

Dr. Hess wrote: But what if the Previa had big wheels in the back? Would that make it a Large Rear Wheel Drive Mini Van?

If it had a high hp motor to warrant the big wheels in the back, then it would be called "Epic".

-Rob

In reply to Dr. Hess:

Maybe, or it would make it a Broken Large Rear Wheel All Wheel Drive Mini Van

BLRWAWDMV for short.

I'll just leave this here.....

-Rob

In reply to rob_lewis:

I'd say that is a maxi-tubbed mid-sized minivan.

Damn, Rob. That Jack Daniels license plate is going to get you pulled over in that thing.

yeah, thats what is going to get you pulled over

I, too, will take "tubbed vans for $400"

G_Body_Man wrote: I, too, will take "tubbed vans for $400"

I was a teen in the 70's, so saying "cool van" is ok.

(searched in vain for a picture of the Streetheart van. No go, so no hotlink.)

Unlike the Kevin Bacon game, where 7 degrees of separation is the rule, this thread is now one degree of separation from Van-essa.

I think the key distinction is unibody vs. Body on frame.

Minivan: one or two box automobile with unibody chassis, a tall roof, sliding side door, and flat floor. Usually fwd with removable bench seats.

Van: one or two box automobile with body on frame chassis, a tall roof, sliding side door, and flat floor. Usually rwd with removable bench seats.

T.J. wrote: I would say that "full-size mini-van" is a retronym. However that has nothing to do with its self contradictory nature. I think the term came along to exclude the Mazda5 which is en effect a mini mini-van. According to this link, there are full sized minvans, mid sized minivans and compact minivans.

I prefer my theory:

Driving any kind of minivan will turn your brain to mush and you don't realize that you're doing or saying dumb things.

It explains a lot of things

(this theory also applies to people who drive pickups, people who drive sedans, people who drive roadsters... The more you drive, the dumber you get! A movie told me that once)

Beer Baron wrote: I think the key distinction is unibody vs. Body on frame. Minivan: one or two box automobile with *unibody* chassis, a tall roof, sliding side door, and flat floor. Usually fwd with removable bench seats. Van: one or two box automobile with *body on frame* chassis, a tall roof, sliding side door, and flat floor. Usually rwd with removable bench seats.

What about Dodge vans made from 1971-200x? They were unibody and they had hinged side doors.

Maybe I should have asked my original question differently. I just wondered if anyone knew if linguists had term to describe two things that implied contradictory ideas. My example was full-size minivan.

Minivan has become a noun that loosely refers to a class of vehicles the characteristics of which are being debated in this thread. The common theme I see between what people call minivans (vs vans) in the US seems to be minivans were never offered with V8 engines from the manufacturer. (This doesn't mean you can't fit one, it just wasn't offered). I am sure someone will point out an exception to this right away.

This debate what a minivan is has me wondering if you park a current Toyota Sienna, Honda Oddessy, or Chrysler town and country next to a late 60's Dodge A100, GM "ChevyVan", or a Ford Econoline, how close would the dimensions be?

Jumbo shrimp?

Oxymoron is indeed the word you're looking for. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/oxymoron

I'm just a regular moron.

Interestingly, what was probably the original minivan (or certainly the most popular of the first) wasn't called a van by the manufacturer. RWD, rear engine, unibody, sliding OR hinged side doors.

And I just had to include this ad because it's awesome. It has nothing to do with the conversation.