Smallish SUVs

On any 4WD - if you intend to go off-pavement in any kind of difficult terrain, make sure you get a real vehicle with low range, period. It will make your life much easier.

On Liberties - I have one, and I like it AFTER I got it set up. With the 6-speed I get 23 mpg highway, about 20 overall. the traction in very good, and I like the traction control (substitutes pretty well for a limited slip), and the stability control works well on ice. The big drawback is lack of ground clearance, which is a common problem these days. My Libby has the factory skid plates - good, except that they cut clearance to a real-world 7 inches, so you hit every rock bigger than a grapefruit (and some smaller depending on suspension loading) on easy trails. The answer is a lift kit - preferably the spring/shock kits from Old Man Emu. Put a 2.5-inch lift on a Libby and it does very well. That's about the limit, though without damaging front ball joints. Installing the rears is a piece of cake, the front is doable but can be a PITA.

Someone mentioned Isuzu Vehicrosses - another very underrated but (in my experience of 125,000 miles on one) excellent small off-roader is the late (post '99 - the '98s had some issues) Amigo, also known as Rodeo Sport. With the V6 and limited slip, it was really rugged, went anywhere, and had similar mpg to my current Libby. It needed a lift, too but that was easy - $180 for a pair of rear springs from Valley Spring Works (tell them your vehicle and how much lift you want - I chose 2 inches), put on the springs, readjust your front torsion bars, you're done unless you want to add shocks, too - again, I used Old Man Emus. A very capable and rugged vehicle - I had no probrems with mine at all except for a recall to reprogram the ABS.

Don't know much about the later 'Zuks but in general most Zuks work very well if you are careful about clearance.

ignorant wrote:

Jensenman wrote: It is weird looking but AFAIK it hasn't generated any problems.

I know... but still.. WEIRD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've got some experience with these from a manufacturing standpoint. I supervised the installation of the assembly line on which this IOP (integrated oil pan) axle is built, and in the runoffs to verify the parts from the line once it was installed. The seals that the shaft rides on are pretty good, but they are rubber and won't last forever. To replace them on an assembled vehicle would be a monumental PITA.

I wouldn't mind being the first owner and using one as a people hauler, but for anything more severe than snowy roads...not so much. These were designed for space savings, not durability.

Something to keep in mind is skidplates. The rear tank plate on the GV is at least 1/8" plate steel. I remember rear end collisions that required those to be replaced, those were beefy.

ignorant wrote:

Jensenman wrote: The Envoy is a Trailblazer, one brother has a 6 cylinder version with the usual GM assembly issues that's otherwise been been pretty reliable, although at >100K it popped a CEL with possible tranny implications (jury is still out). Okay on a dirt road but nearly no real off road capability.

The whole halfshaft through oil pan situation makes me uneasy with these vehicles.

AWD skylines use a similar setup, with the diff in the oil pan

....aaaaaand i found this little gem on bimmerforums while searching for the pics of the rb26 pan/diff/am/fm/clock radio

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12016825

ignorant wrote: just don't try to find parts after Isuzu stops selling pass vehicles here this year... :-) I remember the "four wheeler" review talking about it handling like a rally car and being an absolute blast to drive. Hard to uprgrade for serious use though.. At least, that is what i remember.

its got a Rodeo drive train and shortened trooper frame, there are millions of those..parts wont be a problem for some time to come, unless you dent it... :)

Isuzu hasn't sold their own vehicles here since '04. All they have had since then is rebadged GM SUVs and pickups. Their Asian built vehicles still sell well in the Pacific Rim countries and Australia so parts will be plentiful for a long time to come.