So, Baseball.

that's where we disagree mtn …

I wish they'd do away with the wildcard games period …

if because there's not enough revenue from 162 game regular season, then take the top 2 teams in each div. and have at it … a one game play in is just plain stupid …

and as for speeding up the game, the Commissioner put out for thought and discussion that maybe managers will be allowed only 4 pitchers per game … and any pitcher that comes in must face AT LEAST 2 batters … and more BS

Looking forward to the Yankees ending their season tonight.

neon4891 wrote: Looking forward to the Yankees ending their season tonight.

"One must cheer when the Yankees lose, for it happens so seldom" Or something close. W.P. Kinsella

Streetwiseguy wrote:

neon4891 wrote: Looking forward to the Yankees ending their season tonight.

"One must cheer when the Yankees lose, for it happens so seldom" Or something close. W.P. Kinsella

And lose they did, 3-0

Enzo the Dog said: The sun rises every day. What is to love? Lock the sun in a box. Force the sun to overcome adversity in order to rise. Then we will cheer! I will often admire beautiful sunrise, but I will never consider the sun a champion for having risen.

Now to see how the Cubs do tomorrow, BTTF2 and all...

They can, and they will.

This game is killing me.....

berkeleying Arrieta. This stupid berkeleying MLB playoff system. Yay, the second best team in baseball is out after one game. What a goddamn berkeleying waste.

In reply to LainfordExpress:

Yes, to the 3rd best team in the entire major league.

Actually, both bottom seat teams won the WC.

LainfordExpress wrote: berkeleying Arrieta. This stupid berkeleying MLB playoff system. Yay, the second best team in baseball is out after one game. What a goddamn berkeleying waste.

typical knee jerk reaction … this is (maybe) the first time this situation has come up since they started this extra playoff game BS

no need to throw out the system that's been is use for as long as they've been doing the wildcard thing …

same knee jerk reactions in the NFL, when a team "wins" home field advantage by winning their div. with a .500 record … even a sub .500 record …

same for the NBA … all the knee jerk reaction of RESEDE all the teams according to their record … regardless of whether or not they won their div …

all these situations will self correct over the yrs… tough luck for one team this yr … too bad for Pittsburg, but hey, they had 162 games to have positioned themselves a tiny bit better

LainfordExpress wrote: berkeleying Arrieta. This stupid berkeleying MLB playoff system. Yay, the second best team in baseball is out after one game. What a goddamn berkeleying waste.

50 years ago, Same thing would have happened. But just Kansas City and St. Louis would be playing today.

30 years ago, same thing would have happened- just St Louis vs. LA and KC vs. Toronto.

20 years ago, they would have been in, but they would have to face the best team, which is St. Louis. That period of baseball was shorter than the 2 round era a little. But the top two teams would have faced each other in the first round.

All the Pirates had to do was be better than St. Louis, which they were not.

It was fun watching Rodriguez attack the Gatorade jug. Little guy put up quite a fight.

Awesome game if you're a Cubs fan. Like me!

Maybe it is time to do away with divisions and just let the top 4 teams in each league in?

please … just NO …

just because your div. isn't very good shouldn't be penalty you (the div. winner) for you … it's all cyclical .. just like the NFL & NBA … where there are complaints about a div. winner with a sub .500 record, or the west having teams left out and the Knicks getting in …

wbjones wrote: too bad for Pittsburg, but hey, they had 162 games to have positioned themselves a tiny bit better

In 162 games they were better than the Cubs. My point is that is this was a proper first round series, it has Pirates in four written all over it because they have the better team, but they have to play a single game against the best pitcher in baseball.

wbjones wrote: please … just NO … just because your div. isn't very good shouldn't be penalty you (the div. winner) for you … it's all cyclical .. just like the NFL & NBA … where there are complaints about a div. winner with a sub .500 record, or the west having teams left out and the Knicks getting in …

Ah, the old "don't change it cause it's always been this way!"

But it hasn't. Baseball has always been changing. Before the 70's, it was just the top team in each league. One round playoffs. They had that for about 70 years, give or take. Oh, and some of those years had best of 9 series.

Then it was 2 round playoffs for the next 25 years or so. The first round for a long time, until... sometime in the mid or late 80's was only 5 games. They changed it to 7.

In 94, they made it three divisions in each league. Since there was an odd number of teams, they added the wild card. And don't forget about the wild-card tie-breakers, along with the pennant and division tie-breakers. I know they had them in 98 and 99, and I think in 08 and 09 too. Probably before that as well. Always a one gamer too.

Now, all that they've done with adding the second wild card team is penalize the wild card spot. The wild card team has to win 1 more game than any other team to win the World Series. I think that is a good thing.

It has always been changing. Should we go back to 9 game world series as the only playoff? That was the first way they did it. We should probably also shorten the mound, back to what it was when Cy Young was pitching--what was it, 55 feet or so? That was better for sure. And get rid of all the teams that weren't around in 1962. That was much better, less baseball.

Get off my lawn indeed. Change ain't all bad.

LainfordExpress wrote:

wbjones wrote: too bad for Pittsburg, but hey, they had 162 games to have positioned themselves a tiny bit better

In 162 games they were better than the Cubs. My point is that is this was a proper first round series, it has Pirates in four written all over it because they have the better team, but they have to play a single game against the best pitcher in baseball.

I don't think it is that easy. Cubs won the season series 11-8 over the pirates this year.

mtn wrote:

LainfordExpress wrote:

wbjones wrote: too bad for Pittsburg, but hey, they had 162 games to have positioned themselves a tiny bit better

In 162 games they were better than the Cubs. My point is that is this was a proper first round series, it has Pirates in four written all over it because they have the better team, but they have to play a single game against the best pitcher in baseball.

I don't think it is that easy. Cubs won the season series 11-8 over the pirates this year.

Now, I'm more partial to the cubs that the pirates, but let's remember this was the best pitcher in baseball who hit 10 batters ALL SEASON, then proceeded to hit 2 pirates in one night and make probably more than 10 others dodge, dip, duck, dive, and dodge all night.

He deserved to get hit with a pitch. Probably deserved to get hit in the face instead of his hip.

I'm all about toasting someones knuckles when they are getting too close to the plate, but sheesh, if you want to be a premier pitcher/player/team, show some class.

On the other hand, I thought the top 2 cubs in the batting rotation played top tier games last night (they were responsible for all 4 cubs scores, in their first 3 at bats no less).

mtn wrote: Get off my lawn indeed. Change ain't all bad.

I see that change as going backwards.

At least today, the second and third best teams actually can try to get in, even though they didn't even win their division.

But I prefer having divisions.

I can't believe we're on page 2 and you guys have talked about pretty much everything except how absolutely great this Royals team is.

It's a strange world when the Royals are the first to clinch home-field advantage in the playoffs and the Yankees aren't even in them.

In reply to Tim Baxter:

Some of us are intentionally ignoring one team, else we remember the colossal collapse of our own. Damn tigers.

rcutclif wrote:

mtn wrote:

LainfordExpress wrote:

wbjones wrote: too bad for Pittsburg, but hey, they had 162 games to have positioned themselves a tiny bit better

In 162 games they were better than the Cubs. My point is that is this was a proper first round series, it has Pirates in four written all over it because they have the better team, but they have to play a single game against the best pitcher in baseball.

I don't think it is that easy. Cubs won the season series 11-8 over the pirates this year.

Now, I'm more partial to the cubs that the pirates, but let's remember this was the best pitcher in baseball who hit 10 batters ALL SEASON, then proceeded to hit 2 pirates in one night and make probably more than 10 others dodge, dip, duck, dive, and dodge all night. He deserved to get hit with a pitch. Probably deserved to get hit in the face instead of his hip. I'm all about toasting someones knuckles when they are getting too close to the plate, but sheesh, if you want to be a premier pitcher/player/team, show some class. On the other hand, I thought the top 2 cubs in the batting rotation played top tier games last night (they were responsible for all 4 cubs scores, in their first 3 at bats no less).

Sorry--- I have to totally disagree with you there. It's pretty clear that Arrieta didn't hit those guys on purpose. (No one throws a breaking-ball to "bean" someone) He was in total control of the game--- up by 4 runs, and had absolutely no reason to put anyone on base. Backing a batter away from the plate is part of baseball---it opens up the inside corner. As a pitcher you NEED to do this. If you watched the post-game show on ESPN, the former-pro commentators agree with this assessment.

Now when the Pirates intentionally beaned Arrieta, it was a purely dirty move. They realized they couldn't score off of him (no one really can), so they beaned him in an effort to shake him up, and throw him off of his game. This is also why the Pirates were calling timeouts at the plate, and taking as much time as possible--- to throw Arrieta off his rhythm. Heck, the local Pittsburg newspaper had a list of shenanigans for the crowd to obey each inning in an effort to distract Arrieta. I'm glad it didn't bother him.

I get it that Pirates fans are upset--- they had a good year, and it's tough to make the playoffs just for one game.....and get shut-out two years in a row. Sorry--- that's the way the game is structured. It's no different than the Patriots not making the playoffs at 11-5.

Life isn't fair, sometimes sports aren't either. See if a Lion's fan gives you any sympathy!

In reply to Joe Gearin:

So, he was in total control of the game but not his pitches? I'm no baseball expert (and I agree with you that backing a batter away from the plate is part of the game, see my toasting knuckles comment), but that seems backward. Also, this link: Baseball reference shows that in 2015 in 33 games he hit only 6 players, but last night he hit 2. Where did the sudden loss of control come from?

All I kept thinking last night was, "This guy is either not a very good pitcher, or he's a dick."

Now, I also agree that baseball pretty much boils down to the 'rock, paper, scissors' mind-game between the pitcher and the batter. And I also agree you can earn an upper hand in a mind-game by being aggressive, maybe that was his strategy. Unfortunately, when people try this strategy and end up hitting batters instead, I tend to think less of their actual skill. Others may see this differently, of course.

To the contrary point, I believe this was his first post-season game ever, and he could've been more nervous than usual - but losing control because of that doesn't argue well for "best pitcher in the league". It is also possible that the pirates were intentionally crowding the plate more than normal. That probably was the case, requiring more brushing back than normal.

All in all, it is likely much more complicated than I am privy to, but that doesn't change the feeling I left the game with which was I wasn't impressed by his pitching.

rcutlif, you didn't play baseball or watch a lot of it growing up, did you?

Arrieta looked uncomfortable last night to me. He was not in quite the same groove that he had been in for the last half of the season--the thing is, his 80% is better than most pitchers 100%'s.

He was wild last night is all that there is to it. It happens. If its cold, or humid, you can't grip the ball as well either--there may have been some of that going on.

I've seen a national champion on an easy autocross course have dirty runs for all 6 runs in a day. The guy in question still finished 6th out of 90 RAW time in an E stock Miata. That guy was still in total control of the competition, even if he hit a cone every single run.

Yes, Arrieta was in control of the game--the Pirates could not hit him. No, he was not in total control of his pitches.

At the end of the day, it comes down to this: It was a close ball game (4 runs in a game is nothing), in a win-or-go-home situation. You are not putting baserunners on intentionally. On the other side, you are not hitting the pitcher unintentionally. That doesn't happen in that situation, he is an easy out.

I don't have a problem with Arrieta's hitting of two Pirates last night. The Pirates, as a team, and thus, I infer, by management strategy, pound in the inside of the plate. Basically: the Pirates choose to not allow opposing teams to muscle them out of part of the strike zone, and as a result they tend to hit batsmen, and as a result of that and the neanderthal mentality in MLB that Every Hit Batsman Demands Retribution, then give and receive lots of intentional beanings.

I think Arrieta earned his bruise by continuing to throw high and inside on a night where, as you say, his command wasn't really allowing him to throw there without hitting batters. Just because you're having a bad night, that isn't an excuse to go hitting people. You choose to throw inside when you don't have the control for it, you're "intentionally" hitting batsmen just as surely as if you place one right in the earhole. My bigger issue is with beaning Arrieta is that it vacates any moral high ground to complain about other teams always taking their retribution on McCutchen.