So when was America reallly, truly awesome?

slefain wrote: I'd say some time around 1491...

When the indians were running heards of buffalo off cliffs and not using all the parts?

Wally wrote:

slefain wrote: I'd say some time around 1491...

When the indians were running heards of buffalo off cliffs and not using all the parts?

Yes, but the government didn't make the whole tribe pay for a "Bones for Buffaloes" program

chaparral wrote: 1997-1999. American innovations led to massive and excessive growth in one area, and that allowed every industry to do well.

But I still couldn't get a date in high school.

z31maniac wrote: My biggest problem is the welfare/entitlement programs in this country. Especially because there is a perfect example in my family. My little sister decided to drop out of college and become a baby machine and live off the gov't. Does she have to pass a drug test to cash that check? Nope, funny, I have to be able to so that I can earn the tax money that goes to support her. Does she have to go back to school or learn some trade so that she can become a contributing member of society? Nope. I think Welfare should help get people back on their feet (that can, obviously debilatating disease, disability excluded) not provide a way to sit around and be lazy. "We will help you only if you are willing to help yourself" kinda deal. Does she feel embarrased/ashamed for the burden she has become on my parents? Nope. She feels entitled to all the handouts, she's almost proud that she gets to use our tax dollars to buy brand name products, while many of us buy generic to save money.

I agree with this somewhat. My wife teaches elementary school in Detroit and can tell some fairly depressing stories about trying to get kids to understand the value of hard work and personal achievement. There is an attitude that, while not universal, is far to prevalent in some parts of America. It can be summed up as "work is for suckers".

WilD wrote: There is an attitude that, while not universal, is far to prevalent in some parts of America. It can be summed up as "work is for suckers".

While I don't necessarily agree, I can see where they're coming from. I've seen real life examples of "A Bronx Tale" where people are lured to the streets and fast money. It's hard to keep a kid distracted from that when he has a parent or parents busting their @sses for chump change. Yeah, it's honest work, but still...

Though things have never been perfect. I'd choose the "Baby Boom" years 1946-1964 as the heyday of America. After WW2, people had money saved during the war (largely due to not being able to buy much of anything), and when the soldiers came home, all hell broke loose. Housing and communities sprung up almost overnight, factories started producing innovative goods, automobiles became symbols of status. It was Leave it to Beaver in real life. I was born smack in the middle of the Boom, and I can testify that times seemed pretty good.

OTOH, segregation was in full play, and the Cold War was looming on the horizon. I also remember the drill where we would duck under our school desks in case of atomic bombs from Cuba going off, (like that would have done any good). Put your head between your knees, and kiss your ass goodbye.

It wasn't a perfect time, but it was pretty damn nice. I'm proud to have been born into it.

Those of my parent's age have been called "The Greatest Generation". I would concur. They were born and raised in the Great Depression, went through a World War, and came back to build a society unparalleled in commerce and progression.

In the past. Kings, Queens, Czars, and leaders of empires have lived with rancid food, no indoor plumbing, limited heating options, and no air conditioning. Today, we take all that stuff for granted.

God Bless America!

Wally wrote:

slefain wrote: I'd say some time around 1491...

When the indians were running heards of buffalo off cliffs and not using all the parts?

Yup, took another 400 years for us to come along and figure out you could just shoot them from trains!

That's what we like to call progress

NYG95GA wrote: Though things have never been perfect. I'd choose the "Baby Boom" years 1946-1964 as the heyday of America. After WW2, people had money saved during the war (largely due to not being able to buy much of anything), and when the soldiers came home, all hell broke loose. Housing and communities sprung up almost overnight...

Careful now! I believe a lot of that growth was very much subsidized (socialized in todays backwards wording world). The soldiers got their money from the government, the houses were build under government funding or support (I believe), the industry was the result of massive government spending (WWII). Of course you also have the massive Cold War government spending, which of course we have never recovered from...

...what are you, some kind of socialist?

So what's so bad about socialism?

running away

Joey

Now seems a pretty good time, but I suspect we're are a little bit a victim of our own PR (our track record as a nation isn't exactly the knight in shining armor we like to portray). There are some things that concern me - maybe I've been naive at how rigged/manipulated things seem to be getting - they probably always were. Gas price swings seem more dramatic, wall st. manipulations....even at your grocery store (do you need a "discount" card? - actually a penalty card) and most everyone seems perfectly ok with it as long as nothing much dramatic happens to them. Like the saying - the more I understand, the crazier I get.

OK. My 2 Cents. There was a time in the world when if an advancement was made, or something groundbreaking was done, it was most likely being done in the U.S. These days it's other countries building the huge bridges, constructing the tallest buildings, and making advances in technology and medicine. As a country, many of our big achievements are getting pretty old. Things like the Golden Gate Bridge, Hoover Dam, and the Empire State Building. What happened to that pioneering spirit that made us take on challenges like that? This is still a great country, but we appear now to be more fascinated by watching other people do stuff than doing it ourselves. I also agree that government interference and regulations make it difficult or impossible to achieve many goals. We can barely keep our roads in decent shape these days, never mind construct a nationwide interstate system. This country feels like a grand old mansion to me. It's still a great place to live, but noone wants to pay to keep the place maintained anymore.

aircooled wrote:

NYG95GA wrote: Though things have never been perfect. I'd choose the "Baby Boom" years 1946-1964 as the heyday of America. After WW2, people had money saved during the war (largely due to not being able to buy much of anything), and when the soldiers came home, all hell broke loose. Housing and communities sprung up almost overnight...

Careful now! I believe a lot of that growth was very much subsidized (socialized in todays backwards wording world). The solders got there money from the government, the houses were build under government funding or support (I believe), the industry was the result of massive government spending (WWII). Of course you also have the massive Cold War government spending, which of course we have never recovered from... ...what are you, some kind of socialist?

While I'm not totally against socialism, I'm a capitalist at heart. If you judge a country by the way it treats it's citizens, then certain things should be subsidized.

Most of the money that fueled the boom was not military script, but savings from "Rosie the Riveter" at home. She was able to save this money becase almost everything was heavily rationed at the time, and little was available for purchase.

I would say that right now is the it time. Everyone has heard the saying "The more things change the more they stay the same", it is scary how true that is. Elected officals have always been crooked, companies have always been out for themselves and the Government has always been "ruining" the country. Life is "better" for more people now than it was been, we just need to pay attention to what is going on.

Did the Public Works Administration turn America into some kind of shadow of its former self? Did the tight restrictions on citizens during WW2 persist after they were no longer needed? Just a couple of examples "socialism" at work and look we are still here and the world hasn't ended.

Anyone who is so conserned about the way things are going today should look into the National Industrial Recovery Act, just to put things into prospective.

I tried to bold National Industrial Recovery Act and it didn't show up, oops.

I think today is that day. And tomorrow will be it as well.... AS LONG as we keep working toward a better country. It CAN go to hell in a handbasket quick if WE allow it. I think that's the fight we are all fighting.

In reply to NYG95GA:

I think what aircooled ment was that the money was coming from the Goverment in one way or another. Rosie would not have had a job if it was not for the government needing everything from bombers to underware for our fighting men.

My dad bought me a brand new purple Murray F1 Eliminator bicycle - single speed. This started the whole car/bicycle/drag racing/off roading/Indy Car/Road America/road racing/Sports Cars/Datsun "wheels" turning in my head.

And then he bought a 2 door 1968 Oldsmobile "98" 454 - 4 barrel rocket right off the showroom floor that he kept for 17 years. Exactly like this:

1968

yeah, 1968 was the best time in America. Then the moon landing happened............(uh, 1969)

pete240z wrote: 1968 My dad bought me a brand new purple Murray F1 Eliminator bicycle - single speed. This started the whole car/bicycle/drag racing/off roading/Indy Car/Road America/road racing/Sports Cars/Datsun "wheels" turning in my head. And then he bought a 2 door 1968 Oldsmobile "98" 454 - 4 barrel rocket right off the showroom floor that he kept for 17 years. yeah, 1968 was the best time in America. Then the moon landing happened............

Also the year that I was born....so I gotta agree with you...

Ok, I probably overstated things a bit, Its probably doable (particularly outside of california) but I maintain that our standard of living has fallen relative to what it used to be.

I am an areospace engineer, my wife is a chemist, and we are struggling to pay off our student debt, save for a house, and cover all of our expenses. I have no doubt that if we whitled ourselves down to one income finantial trouble would soon follow.

I contrast my current experence with that of my father who is an electrical engineer. Like me he started his family early, worked during college, yet he was able to afford a house at a much younger age than I will be able to, and his wife didn't work, and he had more kids than I do.

^ Did you Dad have cell phones, cable, cable internet, run a/c in the house all summer? There are so many things "we" just can't live without in our minds. Imagine dropping your $90/mo cell phones, $30/month for cable and another $30/month for internet service, than dropping your electric bill another $100 month by not using as much junk.

Xceler8x wrote: * Equality is closer to being achieved than ever

how is it that "equality" is automatically "good"? even when expanded to "equality of opportunity", how do we define "opportunity" and how is "equality of opportunity" automatically good?

a crack baby has done nothing wrong, but it's still a crack baby. when it turns 16, does it get a car?

I don't have AC, I dont have cable, and even if did I don't think $250 a month puts a dent in the differences in in the standard of living

$250 goes a long way into paying off debt or putting money into a savings account. I know. We've been doing it since we depleted our savings 5 years ago to build our house.

That may be true but its a hell of a lot less than what my wife makes in the course of a month...

same for me. My wife is my "suga momma" now that she's through grad school. But for the first 4 years in our house the thermostat was hot in the summer, cold as hell in the winter and had squat for ammenities/doodads. It may seem like chump change, but it adds up. $3k a year is a good way to save/pay off debt. Now that all the cars are paid for that's another $3-500 per month we are saving as well.... It can be done if one tries hard enough. But we as a society are so spoiled we don'trealize what "sacrifice" is any more.