"In the first three quarters of 2022, “the railroad industry made $21 billion in profits, provided $25 billion in stock buybacks and dividends” and CEOs are paid up to $20 million a year, while railroad workers have "zero guaranteed sick leave."" - Bernie Sanders
But you know, we've gotta pay those dividends for the rail industry to survive.
I live in Beaver Falls between the derailment and Pitt Race. No issues here at all from the burn or smoke. Definitely seeing some contaminated streams but I have city water.
This was all over the local and national news. CBS, ABC and NBC.
My small Ohio town sits on a very busy East/West rail. Generally a connection of NY to Chicago. In Oct '22 (4 months ago) a derailment of tankers happened on an overpass. Luckily, the cargo was just paraffin wax. The trains were running again quickly. Cars are still not allowed through the underpass which seems like an odd contradiction.
I'm in Wheeling, about 50 mi south of the derailment, and beside the Ohio river. I'm not sure whether our water department pulls from the river or from wells beneath it, but my family has stopped drinking tap water for the time being. For a little while on Saturday the entire downtown area smelled slightly like spray paint, not sure if that's related but we're definitely concerned about what happens next.
RevRico said:Another one down in Texas, although an 18 wheeler was involved. Starting to wonder if our rail lines are as high quality and well maintained as our bridges and roads.
Remember those railroad workers wanting to strike, but they couldn't? They were concerned with running on unsafe skeleton crews who would not be able to properly maintain the lines, or prevent/respond to emergencies.
This was not intended to be political, but is inherently political, so probably good to be careful with this line of thought.
In reply to mtn :
Oh I remember very well, I just can't pass up the chance to take a shot at our severely outdated and unmaintained infrastructure.
RevRico said:In reply to mtn :
Oh I remember very well, I just can't pass up the chance to take a shot at our severely outdated and unmaintained infrastructure.
Don't worry, last year they passed a 1 trillion dollar infastructure bill, so there's nothing to worry about. 
I'm south of Pittsburgh but far enough away to not see/hear anything.
Keeping my head buried in the sand for now, I guess.
Big ol cloud up there
For reference, crash site to Pitt Race is not that far.
trigun7469 said:Reading the Ohio governors response he put the trust in the EPA, that this is not bad (hard to believe the EPA). I wish the passion from Hollywood would attack diaster such as this rather then a hidden political agenda. This would be a disaster for Pittrace if they have to shutdown, I don't see anything on their website.
DeWine said the well water tested fine and so is the air, so in a show of good faith he should book a hotel room in the area for a week or two and drink only well water from there. Maybe do some fishing and have a nice meal.
Fox news has also been covering it pretty well. Not sure about other news sources. We have relatives in Ohio, fortunately none in harm's way. Having experience in the railroad, putting any wheels on the ground (off the rails) is a big problem; this is like 5 alarm holy E36 M3 berkeley stuff.
Apparently, there's some eerie similarities to a recent Netflix show, "White Noise" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Noise_(2022_film) Almost certainly a coincidence, still...
QuasiMofo (John Brown) said:Cause looks to be related to axle failure. A video from 20 miles before the accident sight shows a wheel on fire.
Axle failure is likely attributable to one of two things, either a hot bearing that failed (journal bearings that support the axles of the trucks at each end of the axle; they fail and overheat, there are also hot bearing detectors typically) or a stuck brake that overheated a wheel/ axle. Either one could cause a derailment if let go long enough. Railroad workers are trained to watch trains as they go by and look for hot bearing detectors that have gone off, smoke, fire, anything hanging off a train, etc, and all have radios to call this sort of thing in. So either no one saw it, no one reported it, or it got ignored.
volvoclearinghouse said:Fox news has also been covering it pretty well. Not sure about other news sources. We have relatives in Ohio, fortunately none in harm's way. Having experience in the railroad, putting any wheels on the ground (off the rails) is a big problem; this is like 5 alarm holy E36 M3 berkeley stuff.
Apparently, there's some eerie similarities to a recent Netflix show, "White Noise" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Noise_(2022_film) Almost certainly a coincidence, still...
If I'm remembering this correctly, I'm fairly certain that I read an article where one of the guys who is (or at the time of the article, was) currently displaced by the evacuation order was an extra in that movie.
EDIT: Found it: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11754019/Ohio-Family-appeared-extras-White-Noise-experiencing-real-train-derailment-effects.html
iansane said:I just have such a hard time imagining that a rational human being thinks 'fireball hundreds of feet in the air' is the solution to hazardous chemical spill.
Are you a chemist or an environmental scientist or a disaster response expert?
I sure as hell am not.
Just because it seems counterintuitive to a layperson does not mean it's irrational.
Duke said:iansane said:I just have such a hard time imagining that a rational human being thinks 'fireball hundreds of feet in the air' is the solution to hazardous chemical spill.
Are you a chemist or an environmental scientist or a disaster response expert?
I sure as hell am not.
Just because it seems counterintuitive to a layperson does not mean it's irrational.
Exactly. Guys put out oil well fires by setting off explosions next to them
RevRico said:In reply to mtn :
Oh I remember very well, I just can't pass up the chance to take a shot at our severely outdated and unmaintained infrastructure.
Our rail infrastructure is actually pretty solid. Lots of oversight and regulations by the FRA. You get off the beaten path on some shortlines, yeah, some of them can get a bit rickety, but the Class Is are in really good shape overall. Certainly nowhere near as bad as things were back in the late '70s/early '80s. Most of your derailments that happen these days are either operational issues (poor train composition leading to string-lining is a huge factor) or caused by landslides, floods, subsidence, etc.
volvoclearinghouse said:QuasiMofo (John Brown) said:Cause looks to be related to axle failure. A video from 20 miles before the accident sight shows a wheel on fire.
Axle failure is likely attributable to one of two things, either a hot bearing that failed (journal bearings that support the axles of the trucks at each end of the axle; they fail and overheat, there are also hot bearing detectors typically) or a stuck brake that overheated a wheel/ axle. Either one could cause a derailment if let go long enough. Railroad workers are trained to watch trains as they go by and look for hot bearing detectors that have gone off, smoke, fire, anything hanging off a train, etc, and all have radios to call this sort of thing in. So either no one saw it, no one reported it, or it got ignored.
As I'm digging into this a bit deeper; from the article linked in the original post, there was some early indicator of a problem. I don't know what or if it got relayed to the train operators or not:
So here's a few follow up questions.
mtn said:....Remember those railroad workers wanting to strike, but they couldn't? They were concerned with running on unsafe skeleton crews who would not be able to properly maintain the lines, or prevent/respond to emergencies....
This could also very much be an "oh, so you don't think it's unsafe and you won't let us strike.... watch what happens now" kind of thing.
Could go either way, or niether. No way to know at this point.
In reply to Indy - Guy :
Wow, that's insane that nobody reported that. At least it is indicative that this wasn't an infrastructure issue (As Nick mentioned above), this was an operational failure.
One thing we're working on implementing at a couple of my clients' is remote hot bearing detectors, that will radio in any detected thermal events in real time. That technology likely would have prevented this disaster. Of course, so would have a railroad worker with that century-old technology known as "a radio".
aircooled said:mtn said:....Remember those railroad workers wanting to strike, but they couldn't? They were concerned with running on unsafe skeleton crews who would not be able to properly maintain the lines, or prevent/respond to emergencies....
This could also very much be an "oh, so you don't think it's unsafe and you won't let us strike.... watch what happens now" kind of thing.
Could go either way, or niether. No way to know at this point.
No way any RR worker I know would think that. That's insane. Hot bearings on a hazmat train? I don't care if I just got told I was fired and pack up and hit the bricks, I'm telling someone about that.
Duke said:iansane said:I just have such a hard time imagining that a rational human being thinks 'fireball hundreds of feet in the air' is the solution to hazardous chemical spill.
Are you a chemist or an environmental scientist or a disaster response expert?
I sure as hell am not.
Just because it seems counterintuitive to a layperson does not mean it's irrational.
You're definitely not wrong there. I'm ignorant to the proper response in this situation. Maybe 'rational human' is the wrong verbage here. Layperson, like how you describe, is probably more apt.
Was the fireball the least worst option they had?
As noted on the previous page, I read there was potential for one of the cars exploding, so they needed to vent it. When vinyl chloride is released, it very quickly turns into a gas, which is heavier than air, and very explosive. So, yes, based on that info, burning it is likely the best option, but certainly sounds to be the lesser of two evils....
In reply to iansane :
I can only assume that, and that doesn't mean it's actually a good option. It could just be "least worst" as you say.
I do imagine it was the best way to avoid an uncontrolled explosion. It's probably much better than having to excavate all the contaminated soil if the chemicals had time to leech a few feet (or more) into it.
aircooled said:As noted on the previous page, I read there was potential for one of the cars exploding, so they needed to vent it. When vinyl chloride is released, it very quickly turns into a gas, which is heavier than air, and very explosive. So, yes, based on that info, burning it is the best option, but certainly sounds to be the lesser of two evils....
They put out oil well fires because there is a huge fuel supply. They let tanker cars burn out, while keeping neighboring areas cool to prevent a BLEVE, because once you put out the fire you have a limited but present supply of hot flammable vapors in the air.
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