So will it spread? Body panel replacement insurance ruling

Local news ran a story about a major insurance company losing a judgement for which they got sued for using AM or "junkyard" parts on cars not even 3 yrs old.

My bias here: Rather have junk then new non-OE panels.

Full story here.

Datsun1500 wrote: From the article.

"It's a rip off to the consumer I mean I have a new car, I want new parts," former Joe Holland employee Alice Dorsey said.

I don't get that thinking. If you have a two year old car, you have a used car, not a new car. I see nothing wrong with putting a used part on a used car.

But at the same time, if payments are being made on it, an accident happens, and you get a shoddy repair because of insurance dictated repair methods that reduces the tangible property value (Thank you CarFox/Fax)...

And the repair costs go up, causing the car to be written off, driving insurance prices up and causing more waste.

How is using a perfectly good, OEM panel from a parts car a worse quality repair than some poorly fitting "replacement quality" panel?

The minute the car rolls off the lot, it's used, get over yourselves.

Shawn

I used to think that new was the only way to go. Then I saw what some "new" parts looked like, and THEN I saw what a new part looked like after 7 years, the paint is a different shade... I would prefer a junkyard part if the same colour, thank you very much.

In reply to Trans_Maro:

Actually, the OE's have programs in place to supply body shops with OE panels at just a fraction over the slow boat panels cost, but unless your supplying dealer knows how to use that program, you are stuck paying your OTC discounted price.

I really think the lawsuit was over the ill fitting AM junk, but the salvage panels got lumped in there too. I would search and read the brief, but I prefer to remain headache free this weekend.

Ranger50 wrote: In reply to Trans_Maro: Actually, the OE's have programs in place to supply body shops with OE panels at just a fraction over the slow boat panels cost,

I'm pretty sure that - given his business - Trans_Maro knows all about this stuff.

Ranger50 wrote: I really think the lawsuit was over the ill fitting AM junk, but the salvage panels got lumped in there too.

probably true

Ranger50 wrote: Local news ran a story about a major insurance company losing a judgement for which they got sued for using AM or "junkyard" parts on cars not even 3 yrs old. My bias here: Rather have junk then new non-OE panels. Full story here.

This would be bad news for the local junkyards. A large percentage of their business is cutting panels for body shops, to the point where they really don't like having anything over 5 years old in stock.

JoeyM wrote: I'm pretty sure that - given his business - Trans_Maro knows all about this stuff.

That is why I had additional information you edited off. Unless you are a dealer with pretty much a dedicated body shop parts person answering the phone, most dealers don't even know the program exists. Only reason I know these programs exist is because I would read the Mopar junk mail magazines they send out quarterly.

headline should have read: insurance company ignores an existing law and gets spanked for it.

IIRC, the debate started over ten years ago, I lost track before it went legal tho. Customers claimed AM parts lowered their vehicle value (and potential safety?). Shops would have to eat the hours to make ill fitting AM parts right. OEMs claimed their parts included R&D dollars designing the parts to pass crash tests which AM didn't have to in a reverse engineered copy.

In reply to JoeyM:

That's the thing, I don't know.

We have a shop that handles our body and paint, we do everything else.

There are no OEM or aftermarket panels for what we work on :)

Talking to a couple of the bodyshop guy that I do deal with, our socialist, province run, only-game-in-town insurance company (ICBC) raised the rates they pay the shops a little while ago.

The shops thought it was great, making a bit more money on something that has pretty tight margins.

Problem is, this raised the repair prices, which bumped more vehicles over the edge and caused more write-offs.

Now the shops are hurting due to less business and rates are going up because it takes less damage for the vehicle to be declared a total loss.

I can definately see the argument over using a poor quality part reproduction instead of an OEM one if the vehicle is only a couple years old and OE panels are still available either through junkyards or the MFG.

Shawn

The same people complaining that their "new car" didn't get "new parts" will also complain when their rates go up to cover the addt'l costs of buying new OEM parts.

I would take junkyard parts.. especially if they came in the colour my car was already painted. Just one less thing to worry about

State Farm got hit with this several years ago. They now use only new OE parts on cars up to 3 years old and on older cars salvage or aftermarket but they guarantee the repairs to the owner for as long as they own the vehicle.

Just one of many news stories:

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-3480_162-65628.html

mad_machine wrote: I would take junkyard parts.. especially if they came in the colour my car was already painted. Just one less thing to worry about

Except you're living in U-Pull-It fantasy land. There's absolutely no guarantee a same-color panel will match from another car even if that car was built on the same line on the same day. Close enough for a GRM car, yes. Close enough for PITA customers who look at their cars with a microscope when they are fixed, no. What about the stone chips or small scratches that colored panel will have from use, shipping, etc? All replacement panels need to be painted/color matched no matter how nice they are.

I once had a guy say "I want new parts because I bought a new car". His car was five years old. I almost burst out laughing at him.

I love used parts, assuming I can find them. Body stuff is ever harder to come by and justify the cost of because the afterbirth parts are so cheap it's not cost effective to go with used. A/M isn't always horrible though; some of the stuff fits nicer than the OEM, though the success rate is still hit or miss. My company is once-and-done; we ask the shop to try it. If it fits poorly, then we ok a replacement. Other companies will make shops try multiple parts, in some misguided belief the part in the next box will be made differently.

The market exists because OEM's consistently charge absurd prices for replacement parts, as they learned years ago the crash parts business is a cash cow for them. Without the A/M and used competition, they'd be even more expensive. Insurance costs would skyrocket. But it's always the Evil Insurance Company (tm) that is the culprit. You should see the check amounts I write every day for relatively minor hits.

Edit: Having read the cited story, two observations-- 1) West Virginia has some bizarre insurance laws compared to the rest of the country. It's ironic that one of the poorer states has consumer protection laws that wind up being a policy that totals more cars and creates additional hardships for lower income people. 2) The article goes sensationalistic with it's description "Junkyard Parts". We all love junkyards; those weed infested places where the car crusher hasn't visited for 40 years. That's not where insurance companies buy used parts, though. We deal with salvage yards or recyclers; a very different business model with a vastly different level of quality and consistency in what they sell. A real journalist would learn the difference.

In reply to ddavidv:

See the 'journalism sucks' thread.

All I care about when my car is fixed is that it is as good as it was before the crash.

If that involves a "used" part, fine. I don't care. Of course, I'm not driving a $60k car, either.

^This^
although I did have a body shop replace the hood on my Miata with a new replacement aftermarket steel hood. Noticed it didn't drive the same and was heavy when I opened the hood. Went back and explained to them that the car came factory with an aluminum hood. They checked and put an aluminum hood back on it. They also told me that a factory Mazda aluminum hood was cheaper than the aftermarket steel hood and insurance wants them to use the cheapest method. They said they have made note of that for future Miata work.

ddavidv wrote: 1) West Virginia has some bizarre insurance laws compared to the rest of the country. It's ironic that one of the poorer states has consumer protection laws that wind up being a policy that totals more cars and creates additional hardships for lower income people.

They pay for those laws too.... On top of the idjits that scam the system for a paycheck....

One of the things that I don't miss about working in a body shop is that the same people who need lights to let them know they are out of oil and air all feel they know everything about how a car should be repaired and what parts should be used. Oh and what can you do about my $1000 deductible?

I remember years ago, friend of mine had a brandnew Firebird. He bought it new and two years later, got into a slight altercation with a pickup truck with it. I would have been very unhappy with the repairs. For a professional body shop, I would have expected them to have least masked the undamaged parts before painting as there was overspray EVERYWHERE

Being as I run our wholesale crap here, I see the prices of used parts compared to new OEM panels from Hondar.... it's ridiculous. You can usually get an OEM new panel for the price of a used pile of crap that needs pdr, then repainted.

When wrecked the redline I got all new own panels even though it was 5 years old at the time. Evidentially no aftermarket manufacturer makes the redline specific ground effects. Took 3 times of refusing the vehicle with the standard ion side skirts and 3 bitchfests on the phone with my insurance adjuster before they authorized the correct parts that cost 5 times what the standard one did......the body shop was pissed at the whole thing.

Wally wrote: One of the things that I don't miss about working in a body shop is that the same people who need lights to let them know they are out of oil and air all feel they know everything about how a car should be repaired and what parts should be used. Oh and what can you do about my $1000 deductible?

Quoted for truth. Next worst thing is "My brother's girlfriend's father used to work in a body shop and he said...".

Have a claim right now with a car salesman. You know, the guy that will screw you on your trade-in and have to visit his manager 14 times before agreeing to a price? He's using that classic line "I can't find another one for what you're offering me."