St. Louis GRMers, check in, please.

In reply to bludroptop:

And if he were still here and still relevent(iirc he was already falling out of favor at the time of his assassination for not being radical enough), he'd be the first to facepalm and call these rioters(not protestors) idiots.

I'd love an elaboration on "How far we have yet to go" though. Things aren't as bad as people want you to believe, but MLK had it right way back when..."Every man must decide whether he will walk in the light of creative altruism or in the darkness of destructive selfishness"

I simply cited Dr. King as evidence that protests about race relations could be peaceful. It had been suggested that it wasn't possible.

Some of the bigotry and prejudice evident in this thread is abhorrent. Save your objections - I'm out of here.

In reply to HiTempguy:

My point exactly. Equality is all good, however "equality" at the cost of treating groups different do to race, sex, religion and the like is a problem. You can't demand special treatment and call it "equality".

I bet that if you did a study of those that are rioting/looting vs those that are peacefully protesting you would find some interesting differences.

rebelgtp wrote: In reply to HiTempguy: My point exactly. Equality is all good, however "equality" at the cost of treating groups different do to race, sex, religion and the like is a problem. You can't demand special treatment and call it "equality". I bet that if you did a study of those that are rioting/looting vs those that are peacefully protesting you would find some interesting differences.

By some's thinking, what you just typed is bigoted and racist. It's also correct. Equality is just that, equal consideration and opportunities. Not preferred, for either "side". The EOA is one of the most racist pieces of legislation to be put into law in the history of this country, but is touted as a "great step forward". How is that possible? Preferential treatment of minorities and women is now what passes for "equality"?

Some people are more equal than others. Gosh were did we hear that before?

Anyway, with MLK, note that he met his end shortly after changing his message from one of race to one of poverty. Surely just a coincidence. Also, read Who Killed Martin Luther King Jr by James Earl Ray.

http://www.amazon.com/Who-Killed-Martin-Luther-King/dp/1569247110/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1408387907&sr=8-1&keywords=who+shot+martin+luther+king+by+james+earl+ray

Bobzilla wrote:

rebelgtp wrote: In reply to HiTempguy: My point exactly. Equality is all good, however "equality" at the cost of treating groups different do to race, sex, religion and the like is a problem. You can't demand special treatment and call it "equality". I bet that if you did a study of those that are rioting/looting vs those that are peacefully protesting you would find some interesting differences.

By some's thinking, what you just typed is bigoted and racist. It's also correct.

Kinda funny how that works out isn't it? Then also it would depend on what color my skin was when I said it on who thought it was bigoted or racist.

I would love to see everyone treated equally but there is just flat out to much hate in the world for many to accept the fact that the answer is in front of them. To many would rather play the victim and blame others for their lot in life instead of taking responsibility for themselves.

rebelgtp wrote: Too many would rather play the victim and blame others for their lot in life instead of taking responsibility for themselves.

This is something that I wish we as a society would focus on. Personal responsibility. You F up, you are responsible. Your actions have consequences and it's damn sure time people realized that.

Just this weekend, some piece of E36 M3 shiny happy person dumped an absolutely delightful puppy off in the "country" because they no longer wanted to take care of it. Well, he found his way to my house and wouldn't leave. What do we do? We pack him up and take him around to find his owner, knowing full well that we won't find him. Put him in the neighbor's horse trailer for the night so he didn't become coyote food so we could find him a place to go the next day. Spent all morning, put 100 miles in trying to find someplace that would take in a stray dog and had to PAY to leave him with animal control because we were not from Marion county. So, no only did we spend 6 hours trying to do the right thing, put 100+ miles on the car going from place to place we also got to spend $15 to pay AC to take the animal and put him up for adoption because some pile of berkeleying E36 M3 didn't want to take responsibility for owning a dog.

berkeley people. I'm ready for an island.

I understand, Bob. I live in the woods. If you head out of town, take the first right, then the next right, basically, you are on my dirt road in 10 minutes. When school lets out, the kids come out and dump their apartments/dorms, cats, dogs, etc. I've found a dog with a fresh bullet hole in it's head, various cats, a lab mix that someone dumped at the side of the road that just sat there for two months waiting for his master to come back and get him (he would go down to the creek for water and people driving by would drop him food.) Meth lab related trash. Tires. Before we moved here, someone killed a black man and dumped his body in the creek across the street from us. They got caught.

I grew up with this crap too. We were the last house for 3 miles at the time. So people would drive out and dump them. After a while, they start to hunt in packs but unlike a coyote, they have no fear of humans. Not much you can do with a wild dog that has had the taste of blood.

Most times I'd rather put the former owner down because the dog did nothing to deserve it. This one broke our hearts.... if we didn't already have 3 he would have stayed. Fixed, loving, house broken and already knew sit and down. How do you do this E36 M3?

berkeley people. I'm to the point humanity can burn to the ground.

2 years ago we had 3 bodies dumped about 3 miles from us in a commonly frequented pond. No one was ever charged in those.

My long term project (goal) is a solar powered set of low light cameras on the perimeter of my property. HF has a security DVR setup with everything except solar power, I think. Chuck here does this kind of work, but I don't think I can afford a professional setup like that.

Back to the Topic:

http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/trayvon-vu-all-over-again/

In reply to bludroptop:

The problem was, several of those in that era weren't completely peaceful. I give nothing but respect for what MLK accomplished, but its a damn shame that so many people don't care about it anymore or even understand it. I judge people on their character and character alone.

On topic, the independant autopsy report was hinted at, showing 4 shots to the right arm, 2 to the head....all from the front and none at close range. Another blow for the "running away or have his hands in the air" witness statements......

yamaha wrote: Another blow for the "running away or have his hands in the air" witness statements......

Leaves a lot of questions, too.

In reply to N Sperlo:

Unfortunately I fear this will also have a negative impact upon peers just like the last race card media hooplah.

In reply to N Sperlo:

I'm not arguing that there is no reason to have it. I'm arguing that the first response was to use it for a show of force and escalated the situation unnecessarily (from the accounts I've read. I'm not there so I don't know first hand.)

There's a lot of perfectly good reasons to have that equipment available for use. Body armor saves lives, the APC (tanks to sensationalist journalists) can be used to cover casualties for evac, M4s can be used to even odds against better armed opponents at intermediate diatances.

That said the military mindset required for to use that equipment effectively leads to problems interacting with the public. This mentality filters down into everyday life when everyone is trained to be a pseudo-operator or you give them the toys and tell them they are. That is the opposite of what you want for a force setup for the public well being.

SWAT teams should only be used for extreme situations. They should never be used to serve a warrant because someone heard it though the grapevine that that person has weapons. Which coincidentally is why I get bent out of shape when police chiefs say that they need gun registration so officers know what they may be up against. That's just asking for an over reaction.

Most interactions the police have with citizens are non violent. Likewise most interactions citizens have with the police are going to be non violent. Having military grade equipment readily available to use without with a very limited purview of use increases the chances it'll be trotted out just because it can be. This leads to overreaction by the public because they feel law enforcement expects them to become violent and distrusts them or law enforcement is trying to intimidate them into behaving which most people react negatively to. I'd rather these tools be used sparingly.

Of course I'd like to see the investigation done by an independent agency and the officer actually convicted before the media convicts him. That isn't going to happen however so I'll wait before passing judgement.

I just read that Ferguson PD does not have dash cams in their patrol vehicles. What a bad idea. In this day and age I would think that would be mandatory especially considering how often cops are accused of excessive force.

In reply to dankspeed:

And how easily those accusations of excessive force could be dismissed.

I served on a Jury recently. The gal was charged with 'littering' and obstruction of justice. What we knew was the officer was writing a ticket for her deceased fathers truck which was parked on the street illegally. Then the nice young lady took the ticket, in a fit of grief ripped up the ticket and we had to decide whether she 'placed it in her own yard" or tossed it in the street. The obstruction charge we thought was about not giving the officer her name, and barricading herself in the house when he had an obligation to write her a ticket for littering.

The officer during the trial mentioned the dash cam footage existed and the defensive attorney went berserk. We found her guilty on both counts anyway... Yet when the girl erupted in tears members of the jury were shocked. They had no idea the real seriousness of the charges. In fact the whole time in the room they were pretty annoyed by the pettiness of the charges, and in large part it was one reasons we found her guilty.

Later I asked my wife about it (She is in a Senior Admin position at the Jail).. the girl was a "frequent flyer" an constantly being arrested for stuff, causing police and the people they serve LOTS of trouble on the street, but somehow they could never make anything stick. The dash cam footage showed her pushing the officer... "right up all in his E36 M3" yelling and carrying on like a fool. Then locking herself in the house throwing things out the window. Then the boys on the hood showing up causing a massive scene involving all kinds of racist nonsense from the boys in the hood.. Before they were done there were 6 police cars, a Sgt, Captain, ect.. The obstruction was a felony charge that closed the woman's daycare and resulted in jail time.

I get that one COULD make the argument she should have been left well enough alone. The trouble is the damn police force all knew this girl by name for all the wrong reasons. Picked her up for stealing and whatnot LOTS of times and never had anything stick. She also didn't have to cause an extraordinary scene.

So they have her on camera pulling all kinds of crap without provocation, other than the officer doing his job...

Nope can't let the jury see that...

If you are clamouring for camera's just to keep the cops in check. I support that fully if damn defensive lawyers can't so easily keep the videos from juries.

In reply to ronholm:

I would think either side could benefit. Why wouldn't a police officers dash cam be allowed as evidence in a case like the one you mentioned?

In reply to dankspeed:

If its a slam dunk case, the defense will do everything in their power to keep it from being shown.....no matter which side the defense is on.

Latest from Ferguson: a 90 year old Holocaust survivor (Hedy Epstein) has been arrested for "failing to disperse".

Cuffing a 90 year old woman guys? Seriously uncool.

In reply to KyAllroad:

Was she blind and deaf?

KyAllroad wrote: Latest from Ferguson: a 90 year old Holocaust survivor (Hedy Epstein) has been arrested for "failing to disperse". Cuffing a 90 year old woman guys? Seriously uncool.

She's a serial rabble-rouser who wanted to get arrested. Practice your ageism elsewhere.

On the subject of dash cam/body cams: For every person I know that thinks they would be a good idea to prevent inappropriate police action, there is another one who claims they are just another way for "big brother" to spy on you.

Hal wrote: On the subject of dash cam/body cams: For every person I know that thinks they would be a good idea to prevent inappropriate police action, there is another one who claims they are just another way for "big brother" to spy on you.

There's a fine line. The imbalance of power between law enforcement and the average person would be greatly offset by the application of a camera system.

I don't have an issue with it as long as the recordings aren't archived indefinitely. Set an expiration of say 3 months so accusations can be made if the person charged has an issue with their treatment. That way there's less if a chance for abuse and the recordings can be subpoenaed before being destroyed.

The limit is key to allaying big brother concerns, which coincidentally, is the problem most people have with license plate scanners.

oldsaw wrote:

KyAllroad wrote: Latest from Ferguson: a 90 year old Holocaust survivor (Hedy Epstein) has been arrested for "failing to disperse". Cuffing a 90 year old woman guys? Seriously uncool.

She's a serial rabble-rouser who wanted to get arrested. Practice your ageism elsewhere.

Plus, I'll give them credit, they're being very fair/unbiased upon who they arrest, let sit in the drunk tank for a few hours, take mug shots, then release back into the wild......hell, the German journalists they picked up were idiots. They were told to move around if they wanted to take photos not stand in place, instead they walked in place taking pictures and got the same treatment most of the other people arrested for Failure to disperse. Further proof that morons exist in all ethnicities....

I saw one report that there were more "journalists" out last night than "protesters." Also, an eye-witness to the incident reported that the 6'4" 290+lb "teenager" was charging the cop at the time, after punching the cop in the face. Recall that the "teenager's" friend (wanted for a theft or robbery charge) said the cop ran them down, stood over him and pumped bullets in his back or something.