Star Wars Ep I-III politics

Can somebody give me or point me toward a simple idiot's guide to the politics in the prequels?  Because I've seen the damn things a couple times each and I can't tell the Republic from the Trade Federation from who the hell the Separatists even are.

It seems that the Chancellor of the Republic winds up being the Emperor of, well, the Empire.  OK, I get that.

But also an ex-Jedi is growing a clone army (funded by who?) that somehow gets stolen by the real Jedi who use it to whip up on a droid army that I think belongs to the Separatists (whoever they are; they seem like villains).

But then I don't know what happens to either the clones or the Separatists unless they kill each other off completely, as a plot device so the Jedi don't just take over the galaxy and become benevolent dictators of a New Order (oh wait they're later)...

I'm so confused.

The Separatists were a group of planets in the farther reaches of space, backed by corporations including the Trade Federation, who split off from the Galactic Republic due to a belief of excessive taxation and corruption within the Republic's Senate as well as a general feeling of dissatisfaction towards and neglect by the Republic, which focused more on the central Core Worlds.

For the answer of the clone army: a Jedi knight who was viewed as kind of an extremist discovered that the Sith had returned but no one really listened to him. He knew, or at least strongly suspected, bad things were to come and so he went and ordered the clone army without telling anyone, which was funded by the guy who was secretly Palpatine/Sidious/the Emperor's master, Darth Plagueis, who is mentioned in Episode III . Count Dooku then killed the guy that ordered it, Sidious killed his master to seize his power, they had the clones implanted with control chips to make them fully obedient to certain orders. War breaks out, the Jedi put the army into use, then Sidious flips the switch and they betray and kill almost all the Jedi and secure his power over the galaxy.

The clones die off because they age at advanced rates, they stopped making more clones because the original DNA began to get corrupted and was resulting in clones that were resistant to the control chips (as well as the threat of opposition hijacking the clones to use against the Empire), the Separatist leadership gets beheaded by Anakin (literally) to end the war because the Separatists were unknowing scapegoats of Sidious to cause a war that would allow him to consolidate his power.

I love me some Star Wars prequels.

​​​​

OK Nick, here is a challenge then:

 Explain Jar Jar, in whatever way you deem most appropriate.

In reply to aircooled :

Jar Jar was secretly in league with Palpatine / Sidious:

https://old.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/3qvj6w/theory_jar_jar_binks_was_a_trained_force_user/

and was a sith master, a trained force user.

OK, maybe not, but it fits and makes the character really compelling.

Lol, so that's what those movies where about. I've watched those movies, I never knew.

Nick is spot on. 

Personally I really like the jar-jar-is-a-sith theory, but I'm more inclined to think he was just another bad idea by Lucas.

Thats all I have to add. 

To build on/reiterate what Nick said:

• The trade federation is basically an ally of the separatists, despite claiming to be neutral 
• The separatists are led by an ex-Jedi, Count Dooku, who is secretly Darth Tyranus, a Sith. His sith Master is Darth Sidious... 
• Darth Sidious is the secret identity Chancellor Palpatine, leader of the Republic. So he is pulling the strings from both sides
• The clone army was commissioned by a rogue Jedi, Syfo Dyas. He was killed by his friend, Count Dooku... see where this is going? Dooku and Palpatine had the Kaminoans (the aliens that did the cloning) put an inhibitor chip in for Order 66.
• Obi Wan finds out about Kamino and the clones, but he and the rest of the Jedi  believe it was just Syfo Dyas' idea, not realizing he'd been manipulated by Darth Plageius (Darth Sidious' master, long dead at this point) who's public identity was basically the CEO of a big company. 
   

Clear as mud? Some other, possibly helpful tidbits to all of this:

• The sith were in hiding for 1,000s of years. They had the rule of 2 - master and apprentice. Usually one ended up killing the other.
• Darth Plageous took on Darth Sidious as an apprentice. Sidious killed Plageus when he took on Maul as an apprentice.
• When Maul was sliced in half by Obi wan (and not actually killed), Sidious either did not realize he was still alive, or didn't care knowing he wasn't powerful enough. He then took on Darth Tyranus (aka Count Dooku) as his apprentice
• At this same time, Sidious, as Palpatine, was grooming Anakin Skywalker as his new apprentice and luring him to the dark side. He basically goads Anakin into killing Dooku.
• The movies, IMHO, did a terrible, forced job of showing Anakin's fall to the dark side. The show The Clone Wars is really necessary to see the fall done justice as he becomes Vader.

I highly recommend watching the Clone Wars - find the abridged, chronological watch order - and Rebels to better understand it. 

Oh, one other thing... remember how I said that the rule of two basically means one kills the other? Dooku gave Obi Wan a chance to kill Sidious. He told him the truth in AOTC that a Sith Lord was controlling the senate. It sounded like a lie though. It was a win win for Dooku: either he throws the Jedi off the scent of the real sith mastermind, or else he can take over as the Sith Lord. Keep in mind here that, as a Jedi, Dooku has Qui Gon Jinn as an apprentice; Qui Gon had Obi Wan as an apprentice. 

Palpatine/Sidious uses The Batman Gambit, a plan that revolves entirely around people doing exactly what you'd expect them to do, throughout the prequels. He manipulates virtually every character to make his plan work: first, he (as Sidious) gets the Trade Federation blockading his home planet, knowing the Republic bureaucracy would drag its heels getting the blockade lifted; he gets Padmé to call for a "vote of no-confidence" against the sitting supreme chancellor, to get himself elected. Next, he manipulates multiple commercial and nationalist interests into forming the Confederacy of Independent Systems. He goes back to Padmé, getting her to leave Coruscant "for her safety" after an assassination attempt; then her proxy, gullible Jar-Jar Binks, pushes the Senate to grant him the emergency powers to form the Grand Army, a massive clone army (conveniently ordered by Jedi master Sifo-Dyas on the suggestion of his friend Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus, Palpatine's apprentice). He manipulates Anakin: presenting himself as a fatherly figure, unlike the stern Jedi Order, he makes Anakin likelier to trust his advice; uses his fear of loss to bring him closer, and gets him to kill Tyranus, pushing him closer to The Dark Side, when the Jedi are about to out him as a Sith, Palpatine turns it to his advantage: by not beating Windu, he plays on Anakin's sympathy and convinces him to "disarm" Windu, making it easier to turn Anakin to the Dark Side. With Anakin ready, Palpatine executes Order 66. He then uses his "new" appearance as evidence of a Jedi plot to take over the Republic, which would justify him ordering the Grand Army to turn on the Jedi. 

Pretty much, if a plot point is happening, it's probably due to Sidious. And a lot of the time he's doing it as one of the most well-known men in the galaxy and pretty much in plain view of everyone, which goes to show that the Jedi had gotten lazy and complacent. 

mtn said:

• When Maul was sliced in half by Obi wan (and not actually killed), Sidious either did not realize he was still alive, or didn't care knowing he wasn't powerful enough. He then took on Darth Tyranus (aka Count Dooku) as his apprentice

Maul's character arc then becomes "Local man way too berkeleying angry to die" and he pretty much goes on a roaring rampage of revenge against, well, pretty much everyone. He hates Obi-Wan for cutting him in half, he hates Sidious for replacing him, he hates Vader for being his replacement, and he hates everyone else for existing.

This is more about personal politics than "politics" but it explains the difference. I also think this is an all time classic movie.

Clerks Star Wars contractors

barefootcyborg5000 said:

Nick is spot on. 

Personally I really like the jar-jar-is-a-sith theory, but I'm more inclined to think he was just another bad idea by Lucas.

Thats all I have to add. 

There's very good evidence that Jar Jar was intended to tbe the Yoda of the dark side from the start, but by the time ep3 came around everyone was so sick of his character that Count Dooku was brought in as a last-minute substitute. It would've been the best plot twist since "I am your father," but audiences didn't have to suffer through 2+ movies of an incredibly annoying character for that one...

GameboyRMH said:

barefootcyborg5000 said:

Nick is spot on. 

Personally I really like the jar-jar-is-a-sith theory, but I'm more inclined to think he was just another bad idea by Lucas.

Thats all I have to add. 

There's very good evidence that Jar Jar was intended to tbe the Yoda of the dark side from the start, but by the time ep3 came around everyone was so sick of his character that Count Dooku was brought in as a last-minute substitute. It would've been the best plot twist since "I am your father," but audiences didn't have to suffer through 2+ movies of an incredibly annoying character for that one...

Ahmed Best, the poor SOB who played Jar-Jar, actually begged George Lucas to have Anakin brutally chop Jar-Jar to bits on screen as part of his becoming Darth Vader, basically as a form of atonement. Pretty sad that Lucas didn't, because it would have been so cathartic. One of the newer books establishes that post-Battle of Endor, Jar-Jar is still alive on Naboo and is a homeless, penniless street performer who is widely hated by everyone on Naboo for his part in the rise of the Empire.

Lucas was also aware of the hate for Jar-Jar and trolled everyone by making Episode 2's working title be "Jar-Jar's Grand Adventure", to the concern of pretty much everyone who wasn't aware it was a joke.

Better ask the experts here, Why did the battle droids disappear after Star Wars 3?

trigun7469 said:

Better ask the experts here, Why did the battle droids disappear after Star Wars 3?

Real world reason: VFX at the time of production of 4-6 would have made them hard to pull off in significant numbers.

Lore reason: Morale and propaganda, after the war was over, because the Galactic Republic/Empire won and public perception was that were they "good guys" who beat the droid army, so they banned them. Using actual citizens of the Empire gains more support from the people. A lot of people still were distrustful of droids before the war, and they certainly would be afterwards (like how Mando hates droids), so banning them makes people accept the empire more and question them less.  Imagine how Imperial citizens would have felt seeing scores of Battle Droids marching around their city. "...Didn't we beat them...?"

VolvoHeretic said:

Lol, so that's what those movies where about. I've watched those movies, I never knew.

I know, right?  At least half of this is dependent on outside material like books or TV series that I never saw.

You people do understand that the Star Wars "universe" is a fictional construct?

1988RedT2 said:

You people do understand that the Star Wars "universe" is a fictional construct?

Heresy!

Duke said:

VolvoHeretic said:

Lol, so that's what those movies where about. I've watched those movies, I never knew.

I know, right?  At least half of this is dependent on outside material like books or TV series that I never saw.

It is a big problem, IMHO. I always enjoyed SW because of lazer swords and big expolosions in space! Millenium Falcon! But while I understood the original trilogy completely, the prequels (well, EPII and EPIII) do not stand up on their own and are utterly confusing. An outsider may be able to follow the general plot, but the general plot only. 

I finally was able to piece them together after I watched the Clone Wars tv show.

But there are some huge problems with The Clone Wars: First, it starts with a bad cartoon movie. Then its timeline jumps all over the place. And probably 40% of it is unnecessary and often very boring filler, and another 20% of it could have been compressed into about 4 episodes.

If you ever decide to watch it, I like this list and order of episodes.  Add in season 7, and you have 55 episodes, and the movie, in chronological order. I have another 3-4 episodes that I think are fairly helpful for general understanding of the entire franchise, and another 3-6 that are enjoyable and great for character development, but not necessary. 

Watch that list, and you'll understand so much more. It is a shame that the show was necessary to explain things, because it makes it extremely difficult to be a casual fan. The only reason I watched the Clone Wars was because of the Mandalorian - I wanted more backstory - and because I had time during the pandemic.

mtn said:

Duke said:

VolvoHeretic said:

Lol, so that's what those movies where about. I've watched those movies, I never knew.

I know, right?  At least half of this is dependent on outside material like books or TV series that I never saw.

It is a big problem, IMHO. I always enjoyed SW because of lazer swords and big expolosions in space! Millenium Falcon! But while I understood the original trilogy completely, the prequels (well, EPII and EPIII) do not stand up on their own and are utterly confusing. An outsider may be able to follow the general plot, but the general plot only. 

Extended universes are always a hard balance to strike. If you make the books and comics and shows too inconsequential, then there is no reason to partake in them. But then if you make them tie-in too much, you risk alienating casual fans. The Halo video game series found that out the hard way. The books filled out the universe, but didn't really factor in to the main plot, plus the game developers often ignored the book canon, resulting in lots of contradictions. Then, when they got to Halo 4, they decided to really make the books matter, but then those who didn't read the books had no clue what the campaign was even about. This resulted in the developer then to backpedal and trash all the Halo 4 plot points in the dumpster in books and comics and even an adult coloring book, and start over again with the overarching plot in Halo 5.

trigun7469 said:

Better ask the experts here, Why did the battle droids disappear after Star Wars 3?

They lost. Clone/Storm Troopers turned out to be a much superior fighting model. Droids weren't especially effective, and they had some glaring weaknesses as a fighting force.

The Trade Federation used them because they were the easiest way for a group with more money than manpower to raise a dedicated force that answered to them. Battle droids were not a flexible or adaptable fighting force though. They were made to do very specific things. Even pretty crap fighting forces like the Gungans could stand up against them.

They also needed a control center. This is a huge weakness where a small group can fly into a control ship, blow it up, and completely disable all the military units in an area.

A solid option for a trade guild to be able to project power against a weak military power, but not a great solution for a serious intergalactic force.

Actual organic soldiers can adapt, use varied tactics, be outfitted with varied equipment to serve different roles, adapt to specific situations on the ground. You can organize small, elite, commando forces that are able to act independently. You can send out a medium-sized garrison and have them operate independently.

The main problem the Republic faced was morality and politics to raise a massive force. Clones kinda-sorta sidestepped the morality. When the Republic fell and the Empire rose, they were not constrained by the same morality and can take and brainwash child conscripts, or rely on desperate poor people to fill out their ranks.

The Trade Federation droid army would never be able to project force around the galaxy the way the Imperial Storm-Trooper army can.

In reply to Beer Baron :

I would also imagine that a lot of the droid factories were military targets during the war and were probably blown out of existence.

barefootcyborg5000 said:

I'm more inclined to think he was just another bad idea by Lucas.

You mean like naming all the villains by looking at your thesaurus and just adding or dropping a few letters from all the words you can find for bad things?  Or sometimes not even bothering to do that much?

• Darth (in)Sidious
• Darth Plague(ius)
• Darth Tyrann(y)us
• Darth Maul
• General Greivous

NickD said:

In reply to Beer Baron :

I would also imagine that a lot of the droid factories were military targets during the war and were probably blown out of existence.

Whether or not that was the case, the Trade Federation lost due to lack of military power.

The Empire ultimately fell because of a failure of leadership. But they had an effective conventional military.

NickD said:

trigun7469 said:

Better ask the experts here, Why did the battle droids disappear after Star Wars 3?

Real world reason: VFX at the time of production of 4-6 would have made them hard to pull off in significant numbers.

Lore reason: Morale and propaganda, after the war was over, because the Galactic Republic/Empire won and public perception was that were they "good guys" who beat the droid army, so they banned them. Using actual citizens of the Empire gains more support from the people. A lot of people still were distrustful of droids before the war, and they certainly would be afterwards (like how Mando hates droids), so banning them makes people accept the empire more and question them less.  Imagine how Imperial citizens would have felt seeing scores of Battle Droids marching around their city. "...Didn't we beat them...?"

Another reason - they had simply done the job they had been created for and were no longer needed.  This topic was sort of addressed during The Bad Batch when they encountered some leftover elements of the droid army.  I remember there was also an episode of Rebels set in a "droid recycling" facility where deactivated droids were being melted down as scrap.

Otherwise, I kind of agree - the prequels make more sense if you also watch the Clone Wars series. Despite being presented like a children's cartoon (there's basically no blood), a lot of it is pretty dark. Rebels even more so.  

In some ways, the Clone Wars "fixes" the Anikin character.  It would have been nice had Hayden Christensen's character in the prequels been written more like the Clone Wars version. 

I saw an interesting analysis of the prequels and why they didn't quite work as well as Ep 4, 5, & 6.

4-5-6: George's stories, fleshed out and edited by a competent team of writers and editors.

1-2-3: George's stories without the writing and editing assistance.

7-8-9: George's rough ideas, written and edited by committee, but lacking George's singular vision (this bit is my take).