John Welsh said:
Brett_Murphy said:
dculberson said:
OMG seriously? C4C was a drop in the bucket of number of cars taken off the road every year and it ended over a decade ago. I think it's hilarious how many car guys cling to this idea that C4C had any meaningful impact on the used car market even in 2010 much less in 2019.
I saw *two* BMW 325ix with cash for clunker markings on them.
It made a meaningful difference if you're looking for AWD pastic bumper E30 BMWs.
Yet, somehow you can find a Maserati Biturbo any day of the week. If there ever was a car that C4C should have eliminated...it was the Biturbo.
I thought the requirement for C4C was that the car runs and drives. The Biturbo was probably the least affected automobile.
This is the same person who published this:
to prove how you can be broke on $350k a year. ( linky stinky so you don't need to type it in) The writer was then savaged by social media hard enough that I'm surprised he poked his head out of his hole again.
Take that as you will.
A criticism of the industry of FIRE journalism Financial Samurai is involved in if you have an hour to listen.
frenchyd said:
Oklahoma is a cheap state to live in but crime is pretty high, no major league sports, poor schools medical facilities and in general poor amenities.
If your family lives there well that's one thing, but otherwise what is the attraction? It's like Minnesota without the major league sports 20,000 lakes I apologize to Oklahomians,
I typed a bunch of stuff out then deleted it. Needless to say there a few world class museums (Gilcrease has the largest collection of American West art in the world), Tulsa has the 2nd highest number of Art Deco buildings in the country, including a FLW home + the only skyscraper he ever built in Bartlesville. OKC does indeed have an NBA franchise. Lots of hunting/fishing/outdoors stuff (If you're into that kind of thing).
Not all of us are toothless, overall wearing, barefoot hillbillies.
That's Arkansas. 
Duke
MegaDork
11/7/19 3:01 p.m.
In reply to The0retical :
Who the berk spends $100 a month per person on clothes at Old Navy? What do you do, work on a pig farm?
Not to mention that their vacation / entertainment budget per month is about what we're spending in car payments on TWO new, nice cars - car payments with a limited life span.
What moron wrote this?
In reply to The0retical :
That's not broke, that's living beyond your means.
In reply to Duke :
The same guy that who made the car buying chart OP posted according to the mark at the bottom of the image. I'm just pointing out that the authors advice is suspect at best and is married to a track record of pushing out insane E36 M3, like both of these pieces of purported financial advice, along with supposed "evidence" (in the form of iffy math) in support the assertations.
I'd put money on the fact that both charts/budgets are more intended is to get a rise out of social media and drive page clicks. The problem is the kind of advice this guy peddles can do a fair bit of harm to people that can't afford to buy into the FIRE journalism.
Personally I ignore and avoid people like that but I feel a strong need to callout his continued bullE36 M3 in this case.
z31maniac said:
frenchyd said:
Oklahoma is a cheap state to live in but crime is pretty high, no major league sports, poor schools medical facilities and in general poor amenities.
If your family lives there well that's one thing, but otherwise what is the attraction? It's like Minnesota without the major league sports 20,000 lakes I apologize to Oklahomians,
I typed a bunch of stuff out then deleted it. Needless to say there a few world class museums (Gilcrease has the largest collection of American West art in the world), Tulsa has the 2nd highest number of Art Deco buildings in the country, including a FLW home + the only skyscraper he ever built in Bartlesville. OKC does indeed have an NBA franchise. Lots of hunting/fishing/outdoors stuff (If you're into that kind of thing).
Not all of us are toothless, overall wearing, barefoot hillbillies.
That's Arkansas.
I'm sorry if you were offended. I was simply pointing out there are some places that while cheap to live, lack benefits of other more expensive places have.
When you mentioned features I think you missed your best one. Every person I've interacted with in Oklahoma has been a nice person.
Duke
MegaDork
11/7/19 3:51 p.m.
Lack of professional sports teams is a huge positive in my book.
In reply to Duke :
What? You don't wanna have your taxes raised so a multi-millionaire or billionaire can save money to rebuild a stadium for [Insert mediocre sport team here]?
frenchyd said:
z31maniac said:
frenchyd said:
Oklahoma is a cheap state to live in but crime is pretty high, no major league sports, poor schools medical facilities and in general poor amenities.
If your family lives there well that's one thing, but otherwise what is the attraction? It's like Minnesota without the major league sports 20,000 lakes I apologize to Oklahomians,
I typed a bunch of stuff out then deleted it. Needless to say there a few world class museums (Gilcrease has the largest collection of American West art in the world), Tulsa has the 2nd highest number of Art Deco buildings in the country, including a FLW home + the only skyscraper he ever built in Bartlesville. OKC does indeed have an NBA franchise. Lots of hunting/fishing/outdoors stuff (If you're into that kind of thing).
Not all of us are toothless, overall wearing, barefoot hillbillies.
That's Arkansas.
I'm sorry if you were offended. I was simply pointing out there are some places that while cheap to live, lack benefits of other more expensive places have.
When you mentioned features I think you missed your best one. Every person I've interacted with in Oklahoma has been a nice person.
Offended? Not at all. Just pointing out that your assessment of Oklahoma is pretty inaccurate. It would be like saying Times Square is a crime-ridden, garbage-covered, urine-smelling cess pool of prostitution................because thats how it was in the 70s.
As for the nice people, I'll definitely give you that.
I'm not sure what amenities, sure there isn't a beach or skiing nearby............but the advantage of living somewhere like here, is I can go visit those places, enjoy all the good parts, then leave the congestion, pollution, expensive housing, etc, behind when I leave. No good living in an expensive place if you don't have the money to enjoy it. And I know plenty of people in more expensive places that are house poor because of it.
But I digress, we are getting way off topic here.
FuzzWuzzy said:
In reply to Duke :
What? You don't wanna have your taxes raised so a multi-millionaire or billionaire can save money to rebuild a stadium for [Insert mediocre sport team here]?
We happen to agree on that, however it is a serious factor in why some cites grow while others die.
Businesses want to locate where they can entertain clients. Land may be cheaper someplace else but it's easier to attract clients and customers when you invite them to a major league sporting event.
With regard taxes. Taxes aren't the important factor. Income is. Taxes are cheaper in North Dakota and Mississippi than Conn. and Calif.
But incomes are higher, much higher in Connecticut and California. I would much rather pay 10% of $100,000 a year than 2% of $20,000 a year.
As for realestate, Yes it costs more in the expensive places, but you're earning more and it's appreciating more. In the end you'll wind up further ahead owning land in New York City than in Nebraska.
On topic: That chart sorta works for my fiance and I, if you add up the cost of the three cars between us, and then add some. Apparently we should have nicer cars.
Or, I should just get a motorcycle or two. Think that logic will work?
if you live by that chart I suspect one thing: you won't seem broke because of your car.
it looks pretty good to me.
According too this chart me and my wife should own newer nicer cars. I guess 400 dollar beaters aren't on most people's charts and my house cost less then most new trucks
z31maniac said:
frenchyd said:
z31maniac said:
frenchyd said:
Oklahoma is a cheap state to live in but crime is pretty high, no major league sports, poor schools medical facilities and in general poor amenities.
If your family lives there well that's one thing, but otherwise what is the attraction? It's like Minnesota without the major league sports 20,000 lakes I apologize to Oklahomians,
I typed a bunch of stuff out then deleted it. Needless to say there a few world class museums (Gilcrease has the largest collection of American West art in the world), Tulsa has the 2nd highest number of Art Deco buildings in the country, including a FLW home + the only skyscraper he ever built in Bartlesville. OKC does indeed have an NBA franchise. Lots of hunting/fishing/outdoors stuff (If you're into that kind of thing).
Not all of us are toothless, overall wearing, barefoot hillbillies.
That's Arkansas.
I'm sorry if you were offended. I was simply pointing out there are some places that while cheap to live, lack benefits of other more expensive places have.
When you mentioned features I think you missed your best one. Every person I've interacted with in Oklahoma has been a nice person.
Offended? Not at all. Just pointing out that your assessment of Oklahoma is pretty inaccurate. It would be like saying Times Square is a crime-ridden, garbage-covered, urine-smelling cess pool of prostitution................because thats how it was in the 70s.
As for the nice people, I'll definitely give you that.
I'm not sure what amenities, sure there isn't a beach or skiing nearby............but the advantage of living somewhere like here, is I can go visit those places, enjoy all the good parts, then leave the congestion, pollution, expensive housing, etc, behind when I leave. No good living in an expensive place if you don't have the money to enjoy it. And I know plenty of people in more expensive places that are house poor because of it.
But I digress, we are getting way off topic here.
Yes we are off topic, if we limit the topic to one persons idea of how much car to own.
But we've pretty well picked that apart, so we may as well play around on the whole idea of advice.
Being house poor is a choice. Just like owning a Miata track car is. There are advantages to being house poor. Maybe you want that old Victorian home or it's real important you live in a 17th century Farm house. Or a home with a stunning view.
Leveraging income to acquire the beginnings of a realestate empire may not be every bodies cup of tea but some love the idea. Others made a choice earlier in life and just want to see it through.
Not everybody wants to play golf or travel. ( I spent over 40 years living out of a suitcase, a home is a wonderful place for me)
In reply to OHSCrifle :
It ignores a lot of soft factors when you get into that sub $50k range.
It also seems to assume that people living in that range of income live in an area public transportation which A) exists B) go anywhere meaningful in a reasonable period of time.
Neither of which is the case for most rural, semi rural, bedroom communities, or a large numbers of small cities.
The same applies to car pooling.
That leaves you with the more dangerous motorcycle option if you have travel any distance to work from these areas (walking, bikes and mopeds are out of the question in most of these areas) or buying a 6 to 10 year old car. I know cars last longer these days, but a $5k car is going to have $5k car problems. I'm figuring suspension, brakes and/or tires on the cheap side. That can easily be $2k to $3k over 2-3 years. Double that if you bought an FCA product (sarcasm, mostly.) If you live in the rust belt, that's likely the cars last stop. So there is no resale value to be had.
The advice works in a very narrow set of circumstances, but this type of writing is targeted at people making median or less than median household incomes. I'd argue it makes them more vulnerable if they don't have the kinds of skills exhibited on this board.
I had more to say but typing on my phone is annoying.
I consider it decent advice. Similar to my dad's advice to budget 3-4% of your home's value, annually, for maintenance and upkeep.
While I disagree with the original post's table, I think it's worth looking at from an "inspiration" point of view. Like, it made us think and discuss. As outright financial advice it's about as useful as "cut your daily latte to become a (sleepy) millionaire" and the rest of the shaming of people whose expenses you don't agree with.
I also agree with frenchyd that being X-poor (with X being house, vehicle, whatever floats your, err, boat) is a choice that people should be OK to make. I also appreciate the existence of the FIRE movement, disagree with a bunch of criticism from certain people's high horses and if you want to save 50%+ of your income so you can do whatever you'd like to do when you don't need a day job, hey, more power to you.
Regarding the motorcycle option - I can pretty much guarantee you that they're talking about scooters and not fully dressed Harleys and the like. Anybody who owns motorcycles knows just how expensive most of them are to run, but that's our choice (again).
BTW, I've had the "somewhat lower salary in a less expensive area vs alleged high salary in an expensive area" discussion with too many folks. As a seasoned IT guy I can make pretty decent money, but the difference between what I earned back in NV and now in WV, compared to what I could earn in, say, Silly Valley does anything but make up for the difference in cost of living. That's the part most people forget. And if you're talking about CA specifically, the high salaries are really concentrated in the Bay Area and down in LA/San Diego, with a lot of poverty in between and further North.
